Tried The Tone Master Deluxe Reverb Today

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Kmaxbrady, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,133
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    This is becoming a strawman argument. Speaking for myself, I never suggested these amps should have "a hundred amp models and 1,000 effects". What I DID say was, since Fender went through the trouble to build out such an impressive system to model one specific type of amp, how about a couple variations on the theme- a tweed/blackface/silverface switch (discretely hidden on the back panel so as not to confuse the easily distracted) would be cool on the Deluxe, maybe a second switch for C12K/P12Q/Greenback options. Then, Fender could market the amp as "Just like the Deluxe Reverb, but better!" and then you'd be giving players an actual sonic reason to buy these amps instead of just weight savings.

    My DRRI has a P12Q in it, so the Tone Master, no matter how good it is, will never sound like my amp and therefore can't replace it. I can't just drop a P12Q in a Tone Master and achieve the same results, either- the Tone Master's output circuit is tuned to emulate an old Jensen when run through the neodymium speaker they used.


    It didn't take long, this was on my local Cl today:


    Screen Shot 2019-09-28 at 7.14.05 PM.png
     
    BigDaddyLH likes this.
  2. stilwel

    stilwel TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    11
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Location:
    Arizona
    This isn't accurate. There's no speaker-related magic going on under the hood other than the IR for the XLR output, but that has no effect on what goes to the speaker. The N12K neo speaker(s) and the pine cabinet handle that completely on their own.
     
    middy likes this.
  3. NewKid

    NewKid Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    912
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle
    I tried a TM Deluxe at my local music store this afternoon. It was beautiful and it sounded fantastic but I only played it clean at moderate volume. I was demoing a guitar and the amp was available.

    If I was a gigging musician I would definitely get one. The amp was as light as my Pro Junior.

    It’s amazing how much debate these amps have generated here. I think if you try this amp you will definitely like it.
     
    stilwel likes this.
  4. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,133
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    Drive a Bugatti Chyron on the autobahn from Frankfurt to Bonn at 180kph. Then do the same in a Ford Escort. They're both going 180kph, so they're exactly the same, right?

    The difference is feel.
     
    Owenmoney likes this.
  5. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,133
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    Incorrect.

    Watch the video, which explains how the output section is designed, and see 11 Gauge's post about the difference between the TM's speaker and the DRRI's C12K. The TM's stock speaker is WAY different than a C12K, the only way to get it to sound similar is to use DSP.
     
  6. Twang Deluxe

    Twang Deluxe Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    394
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Location:
    Kehl
    Today I gigged with my DRRI. I play in six piece band and my maximum volume was 3.

    The amp sounded o.k., but I was never able to reach the sweet spot.

    Perhaps the Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb would be the better amp for me. Also because when I turn DRRI at 10 I never got that nice overdriven tone, that you get from an original Deluxe Reverb from the 60s or from the new Tonemaster with the attenuator
     
  7. reckless toboggan

    reckless toboggan Tele-Holic

    Age:
    45
    Posts:
    619
    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2019
    Location:
    Canada
    Exactly.
     
  8. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    10,675
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Location:
    near Arnold's
    ...
     
  9. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    10,675
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2013
    Location:
    near Arnold's
    Intentional hyperbole is not a straw man.

    Also, what is your Craigslist post supposed to prove? That i can buy a used one with no warranty for more than I paid for my new one with warranty?
     
    Ironwolf likes this.
  10. stilwel

    stilwel TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    11
    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2019
    Location:
    Arizona
    I'm not sure which video you are referring to.
     
    MilwMark likes this.
  11. tfarny

    tfarny Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,295
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    Hudson Valley, NY
    Sorry but there are so many holes in that analogy I can't even understand why it is supposed to make sense. I give up.
     
    jdto likes this.
  12. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,133
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    Hyperbole is often employed in strawman arguments in order to mischaracterize the opposing argument. To the best of my knowledge, no one in this thread has said Fender should have put "a hundred amp models and 1,000 effects" into the Tonemaster amps, or even anything of the sort- claiming otherwise was an intentional mischaracterization.

    As to the CL ad, I simply found it amusing that someone was attempting to dump a brand new amp at nearly list price, and when the subject of the eventual existence of used Tonemasters came up in this thread, I thought it'd be a funny thing to share. I'm not out to "prove" anything. On the other hand, you seem to take any perceived criticism of the Tonemaster personally... almost as if you had a personal or professional interest in the amplifier or FMIC.

    The one that was discussed earlier here that discusses the design of the amp-



    I had assumed that since you were speaking of the inner workings of the amp, you must have seen this video since it's the only thing I'm aware of in the public domain that addresses it. However, I missed your sig line identifying you as an employee of FMIC- my mistake. So, as someone who has some sort of inside knowledge about the amplifier, can you explain to me how you were able to make this neodymium speaker:

    Screen Shot 2019-09-29 at 1.10.21 AM.png

    sound like this ceramic one:

    Screen Shot 2019-09-29 at 1.13.27 AM.png

    without the use of DSP or other internal "magic"?

    The point is that a neodymium speaker sounds different than a ceramic speaker. To make the output of the two sound the same, the differences must be accounted for somewhere in the amp circuitry or DSP model.

    What you're really saying is, you lack the ability to formulate a coherent rebuttal so you're resorting to argumentum ad lapidem- one of the lazier and more boring logical fallacies.

    Given your other contributions to this conversation, I am hardly surprised.


    I find it intriguing that there's so much sharp controversy over an amp that hardly anyone has heard yet. I guess Oscar Wilde was right- the only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about.
     
  13. Fenderslinger

    Fenderslinger Tele-Meister

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    206
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2018
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    So I gigged the DR tonemaster tonight and i'd give it an A+. I had to walk the gear 50 yards or so from the car to the stage and my hand wasnt throbbing when I finally set it down. It sounded great on the stage. The sound man was super pleased with the xlr out (with cab/mic sim) on the back and plugged right into the amp and ran it through the mains.

    Here's some video from the audience someone posted, you be the judge.. It sounds like a Deluxe Reverb to me

     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2019
    middy, NewKid, scottser and 6 others like this.
  14. nosuch

    nosuch Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,681
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Location:
    Cologne
    Do you realize that these amps are excactly the answer to us old farts whining here?
    • "The amp is too heavy, mimimi!"
    • "The amp is too loud, mimimi!"
    • "The amp will need new tubes every other decade, mimimi!"
    • "This modeler has too many options, I can't wrap my head around it, mimimi!"
    Limiting the amp to one model ("we dedicated all the processing power to do one thing extremeley well, blablabla") is marketing bs, it's like building a super computer that only runs word, but not excel. In the digital world, amp models, effect models are just programs that are loaded into the RAM. So a Kemper or AxeFX will use all the processing power for the program that is actually loaded into the RAM. Until you switch to another preset and "dedicate all the processing power" to the next program.

    They did a good job providing a simple, well known interface for a modeler, though.
     
    middy, JD0x0, backporchmusic and 3 others like this.
  15. drri

    drri Tele-Meister

    Age:
    37
    Posts:
    101
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Location:
    SC
    This is it for me, 23 pounds and I can dial it in to get the breakup I want! I don't do large gigs, the most my DR gets to turn up to is 4. This will be a game changer for me!

    This is very true, I have a Alessandro build DR and the first thing I thought of was how great it will be to A/B them. We'll see soon enough. I played a tonemaster series and promptly ordered it!
     
  16. drri

    drri Tele-Meister

    Age:
    37
    Posts:
    101
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2016
    Location:
    SC
    So with the XLR, can you have both at the same time? Running out of the amp and going out of the XLR to the mains?
     
    Fenderslinger likes this.
  17. Twang Deluxe

    Twang Deluxe Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    394
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Location:
    Kehl
    I liked the example of the Bugatti and the Ford Escort.

    But do you really need a Bugatti if you only use your car, to drive to the supermarket, which is 2 miles away and you drive at maximum 30mph?

    You can leave the old rusty Ford Escort at the parking spot without worrying that someone would damage it with a shopping trolley...

    When I played in a pub full of drunken people, who went on our stage, I was happy that I left my expensive
    tube amp at home and played through my Fender Deluxe 112 Plus solid state amp (my Ford Escort)...
     
  18. TeleTex82

    TeleTex82 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,689
    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Location:
    San Antone
    Somebody is very proud of their freshman level logic class...
     
    Durtdog, stevemc and MilwMark like this.
  19. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    6,863
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Location:
    South Australia
    Anderton's do a good ( and fun) vid on these comparing both the Delexe Reverb and Twin Reverb. You can hardly pick the difference. See Youtube.
    I had a Twin and lucky I was young and strong when gigglng with it. Boy it weighed a ton !
    The " Captain" even says you can peel that label off the bottom if you want it to look like originals.
    I'd get one as they are much less expensive and you can have the attenuation of wattage output.
     
  20. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,133
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    Is it so hard to believe that some of us actually use big boy words on a regular basis?

    Now, could you find any fault with my "freshman logic", or are you just suffering from vocabulary envy?
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.