Tremelo Picking Frustration

[Dirk_Bagge]

I have always loved surf guitar and it’s such and important part of the style. I don’t expect to melt guitar picks for an hour like Dick Dale but I would like to be able to play some of his songs solidly.

I tried 30 years ago and gave up. I’m determined to get it but when start getting up to speed I get sloppy and I can’t get past this. I’ve gotten tips from numerous YouTube videos and I have improved because of them. But man… this last step.

I’m even thinking about taking guitar lessons just to learn this.

 

[bottlenecker]

I have always loved surf guitar and it’s such and important part of the style. I don’t expect to melt guitar picks for an hour like Dick Dale but I would like to be able to play some of his songs solidly.

I tried 30 years ago and gave up. I’m determined to get it but when start getting up to speed I get sloppy and I can’t get past this. I’ve gotten tips from numerous YouTube videos and I have improved because of them. But man… this last step.

I’m even thinking about taking guitar lessons just to learn this.

When I was a teenager someone told me to try to make my upstroke sound exactly like my downstroke. Play one note on one string, as slow as I needed to to make up and down sound exactly the same. They never sound exactly the same, but I spent a lot of time trying, fairly slow, and got very close. That made me a fast picker, more than trying to pick fast did.

 

[Dirk_Bagge]

When I was a teenager someone told me to try to make my upstroke sound exactly like my downstroke. Play one note on one string, as slow as I needed to to make up and down sound exactly the same. They never sound exactly the same, but I spent a lot of time trying, fairly slow, and got very close. That made me a fast picker, more than trying to pick fast did.

One of the things that is happening is I think some of my up strokes are louder and that’s what is contributing to the sloppy sound.

I may try to make a video to demonstrate what is going on.

 

[MickM]

You will need to develop PATIENCE as much as your picking technique. Just go slow, as slow as it takes and when you get bored or tired take a break. Eventually the speed will come but it takes time.
Check out Bill Kirchen playing the bass line to Hot Rod Lincoln and learn it slow. Won't be long before you will get it faster and a little faster etc. Don't forget...CLEAN and SLOW.

 

[bottlenecker]

One of the things that is happening is I think some of my up strokes are louder and that’s what is contributing to the sloppy sound.

I may try to make a video to demonstrate what is going on.

That makes sense. Concentrate on accuracy, because if you practice doing something "wrong", you're only getting better at playing it wrong. Get the motion right first and speed will be a byproduct of accuracy.

 

[Dirk_Bagge]

Thanks for the tips. I will keep going with you suggestions. I’ll report back

 

[Peegoo]

Like @MickM says above: clean and slow.

@Dirk_Bagge

The issue that causes a tone difference between the upstroke and downstroke is twofold; (1) pick angle, and (2) the distance of overtravel after striking the string.

Pick angle should be as close as possible to 90 degrees from the plane of the stroke. This helps guarantee the pick will release the string the same way going up as it does going down.

Differences in overtravel can be difficult to master, but as with anything technical involving manual dexterity, precision comes with practice.

Clean and slow. Use a metronome. Keep the pick flat so it strikes the string flat (A below). Once you get a handle on that, you can start to experiment with getting different sounds by rotating the pick in relation to the strings (B below).

 

[klasher]

So for tremolo picking, do you guys use just wrist movement or your whole forearm?

 

[Dirk_Bagge]

Most of what I have seen tells me to use the wrist for most of the movement.

 

[sax4blues]

Every guitar playing skill or technique which I have improved at has required a lot of time for me. But always the more I play the better I get, it's that simple. I bet we would be amazed if our playing hours were compared side by side with the professional and iconic players we want to emulate. 10-1? 20-1? more? Over the course of decades.

I just say this because this is my motivation to keep working, believing there is no substitute for time, and also to not be frustrated because I don't play like Dick Dale.

 

[OmegaWoods]

I’ve recently discovered that playing the guitar is hard.

 

[Hodgo88]

So for tremolo picking, do you guys use just wrist movement or your whole forearm?

Most of what I have seen tells me to use the wrist for most of the movement.

It's a relaxed wrist motion. You will cramp up fast attempting to use the whole forearm.

The crappy part about fast playing in general is that any excess movement that you don't notice when picking slowly will show up big time in your speedy runs, so you almost have to relearn the right hand.

I know your goal is surf, but I'd turn to the metal and shred guys on this topic, in particular Troy Grady's "Cracking the Code" series or anything put out by BERNTH on YouTube. Both of those guys have dedicated an awful lot of time and effort into picking hand economy and are wonderful teachers to boot.

Frankly there are too many things that can and do go wrong at speed. Unless you can provide us with some video, diagnosing your own particular issue will be a shot in the dark.

 

[Peegoo]

There are several ways to tremolo pick, and you should try them all and see what you like best. A few suggestions:

-Lock the shoulder and elbow, and use up and down wrist motion. If you suffer from RSD of the wrist, this is a bad idea.

-Lock the shoulder and wrist, and use the elbow to 'shake' the pick up and down.

-Lock the shoulder, elbow and wrist, and rotate the forearm like an axle to effect the up and down motion of the pick.

If you're in the habit of resting a finger or fingers on the guitar top when you play, this may or may not help when tremolo picking. It depends how much flex you have when anchored like this. Also, splaying out the fingers of the picking hand might slow you down. Make a fist when gripping the pick instead.

These are just some random thoughts...

 

[schmee]

I have no idea what 'tremelo picking' is. But I've only been playing 58 years.

 

[Dirk_Bagge]

I have no idea what 'tremelo picking' is. But I've only been playing 58 years.

 

[Dirk_Bagge]

@Peegoo I do have a habit of resting my pinky but I’m not doing so when I tremelo pick. And I’m keeping all of the motion in my wrist with the pick angled.

It is by far the hardest technique I have tried to learn on guitar. That’s why I gave up ~33 years ago. I didn’t have YouTube and I didn’t know any metal players to consult with.

I’m just going to keep going and devote at least 15 min a day until I get it. I’ll report back in a couple of months.

 

[kuch]

I have always loved surf guitar and it’s such and important part of the style. I don’t expect to melt guitar picks for an hour like Dick Dale but I would like to be able to play some of his songs solidly.

I tried 30 years ago and gave up. I’m determined to get it but when start getting up to speed I get sloppy and I can’t get past this. I’ve gotten tips from numerous YouTube videos and I have improved because of them. But man… this last step.

I’m even thinking about taking guitar lessons just to learn this.

Maybe you should look into the Gamechanger Bigsby pedal. just a suggestion

 

[loopfinding]

for me for the least amount of tension and most amount of speed/stamina:

- elbow locked
- wrist slack, bent away, and pick downward slanting, like oud picking position
- basically just shake my hand in a rotational movement

getting the speed up is not too difficult, but you really have to just do it over and over again to build stamina. put on a thrash metal record and try and play along with it without stopping for as long as you can. it makes surf stuff or slower metal tremolo much easier after that. if you don't do it regularly, you sort of lose it if you come back to it after a break.

one important thing to be mindful of (that sometimes trips me up) is rhythm. you can't gloss over what rhythm you're picking. i realized that i kind of default to 16th/32nd triplets, and then if that's too fast, i do 16ths (or 32nds). but if you're not conscious of which one you're using, you're going to get a lot of slop. it helps to slow things down, listen and commit to which rhythm (duple or triple) sounds better for that passage. you'll sound more locked in when you speed it up again.

 

[RCinMempho]

Like loopfinding said, listen to them. Are they 16th notes? 32nd notes? They sound faster to someone else than they do to you. You may not really need to be all that fast once you surf it up with some time effects.

 

[Joe-Bob]

Work on being smooth and even with your picking. Go slow. The speed will come all by itself.
Also, you may want to not have the pick exactly parallel to the strings: a slight angle will use the curve of the tip better.
Finally, try a Dunlop fat stubby pick. That may help.