? Treble bleeds ?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Mezzamort, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. Mezzamort

    Mezzamort TDPRI Member

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    I have a new American Standard Telecaster and I would like to know whitch treble bleed is best for it The Golden age or Seymor Dunken treble Bleed ?:confused:
     
  2. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    I recommend you read this page for info on treble bleeds. It's after the part that tells you how you can adjust the resistance value of your pots. Rather than buy a pre-made set up, once you are at the point of soldering cap and resistor to your volume pot it's perfectly easy to just buy the caps and resistors directly, for around 25 cents apiece, and do it yourself. If you're lucky there's a Radio Shack somewhere near you that actually still has a set of metal drawers with these kind of components for sale--- somewhere in the corner that hasn't been completely taken over by smart phone paraphenalia. Buy a nice assortment of caps and resistors while you're at it. Typical ones that are used for guitars.

    http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/potm.htm

    You should also open up the guitar and see how it is currently wired. Maybe there's a treble bleed in there already.

    Bottom line is if you like to use your volume knob, and you don't like the tone to get darker as you turn down, then a treble bleed might be worth trying. I've had good luck with all of the typically recommended values for Strats of cap and resistor, either in parallel or series. Either way I prefer it over not having a treble bleed, but YMMV.
     
  3. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    IME the effect of a treble bleed is more like a treble add, as in, you start out with more treble than you do without the bleed circuit (to my ear)
     
  4. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Before you do anything, figure out exactly what you don't like about the current wiring system. Play it extensively at all volumes you play it (the characteristics will change at higher volumes).

    Then read the tens (hundreds) of threads here on treble bleeds.

    You'll see that even among volume and tone knob "riders", just as many folks hate every treble bleed they try, and prefer the stock wiring, as folks that love treble bleeds.

    And among those that love treble bleeds, most of them dislike all but one or two that they really like.

    As I'm sure chris m.'s site goes into, most treble bleeds change not just how the treble content reacts, but how the resonant peak of the pickup is set as you roll back. For me that change was not worth the treble retained, with any scheme I tried. And when I play at volume, I appreciate the slight treble reduction that comes with rolling back.

    But as chris m. aptly notes, YMMV. Except I'd change it to YMWV.
     
  5. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

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    It's a matter of taste and preference. You can also likely save money by not buying an overpriced 'kit' and just buying a few different caps and resistors to try. There's quite a few different ways to do a treble bleed.
    Cap only
    Cap w/ resistor in series
    Cap w/ resistor in parallel

    Then of course, the value of these components will affect how the treble bleed functions.

    For example G&L factory treble bleeds is a 200pF cap, with no resistor.

    IMO spend your money on a few cheap caps and resistors and do some trial and error.
    Weber caps are about $.42 cents a piece, and resistors $.11 cents a piece. So there's no need to get crazy. I'd suggest silver mica caps over ceramic, and metal film resistors over carbon comp/film, personally, but it shouldn't really make a noticeable difference.
     
  6. tele_pathic

    tele_pathic Friend of Leo's

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  7. Chritty

    Chritty Tele-Afflicted

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    With all the precautions being advised here, how about you try a completely reversible mod.

    You can play around with all the different values and if you don't like any of it, just unclip. All it will cost you is a few $ and some time with a soldering iron
     
  8. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Emphasis on the "a" in "a treble bleed"

    Because there are endless variants.
     
  9. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    yep even the most extreme variants are so close sounding, it's unlikely you would ever know the difference..

    and if you have a habit of playing wide open, on 10, then the bleed circuit doesn't do squat... and it doesn't do much more than squat if you DO roll back the volume...

    getting in a sweat about a bleed circuit is like worrying about, is it some boutique Sea salt, or just plain old Morton's Table salt.... on those french fries...


    Ron Kirn
     
  10. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Since we're talking Telecaster another cool thing to try is just move the wire that goes from the volume pot to the tone pot to the middle lug instead of the outside lug. This is called the Fezz Parka or 50s mod and has a similar effect to a treble bleed, with no extra parts needed Definitely worth a try, IMO.

    I re-wire my Strats to have a single master tone knob so that I can use the extra tone knob to get N+B. At that point it's wired just like a Tele circuit so I do the 50s mod on it and it works great.
     
  11. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I am sure that's true. I tried two of them and decided what I perceived as the overall added shrillness (of both treble bleed circuits that I'd tried) was not for me, and decided further that was one tone rabbit hole I wouldn't bother spending more time going down
     
  12. Mezzamort

    Mezzamort TDPRI Member

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    Witch middle the Volume or the tone pot or both to the middle ?
     
  13. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Move wire that connects vol pot first lug to the tone pot from where it is to the middle lug of the vol pot. Don't change anything else.
     
  14. songtalk

    songtalk Friend of Leo's

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    I really like treble bleeds. My "clean sound" is my guitar volume on 6-7 with my tone knob on about 9-10 on the neck pickup or middle position. I have a 0.001 uF cap. It doesn't add any treble. I did end up turning my treble and bass down a bit and my amp volume up a bit more but the tone I get is not thin so much as a great clean rhythm tone which is what I am after.

    No Mortons/pink salt. Just a treble bleed that sounds good to me. I suggest you read a lot and try some different stuff.

    Many folks like 50s wiring more than treble bleeds and many folks don't like treble bleeds (if I played with dirt/OD on all the time I don't think I'd use em FWIW...totally horses for courses).
     
  15. Peter Rabbit

    Peter Rabbit Tele-Holic

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    Please remember to use heat sinks (I use alligator clips) when soldering the cap/resistor to anything, so as not to damage them. Also, when using a passive system, you are never adding treble, just removing the mids and bass. And always put a cloth or something on your guitar around where you're soldering to prevent damage to it.
     
  16. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    In this scenario I disagree. A treble bleed puts back treble that otherwise gets removed as you turn down the volume.
     
  17. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    It also removes bass. "Not that there's anything wrong with that!" - Jerry Seinfeld.

    [​IMG]

    "a single capacitor is used to feed some extra treble to the output to compensate for losses. A 0.56nF has been used, to give a very good tonal match at -6db. "

    Lots o diagrams here: http://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5317/treble-bleed-circuit
     
  18. Bartholomew3

    Bartholomew3 Friend of Leo's

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    That's what happened to my old tele after I had a tech install a treble-bleed while in for frets. Wanted to try it but had to snip it out a couple of days later. The guitar completely lost it's personality and almost had a shrill, tinny sound everywhere on the tone control at all volumes.

    Maybe due to leakage of the original 45 year old tone pot if that's even possible, have no idea but the sound/tone of the instrument went down the tubes, came back as soon as I snipped it out.
     
  19. songtalk

    songtalk Friend of Leo's

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    I have never experienced added treble. But who cares. If you don't like what they do, don't use them.

    They retain treble.....
     
  20. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I do the 50s wiring..and then treble bleed if I still need it.
    imho
     
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