Transtint bleed through on faux binding

Jsil13

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So this is my first time using Transtint and decided that I'd try to do faux binding and a natural contour. I sealed the sides with several coats of shellac and then taped, but still got some bleed through on the contour. I've been sanding, filing, and sanding some more but it's still there. The faux binding itself came out nice, but the arm contour and the heel access contour have a little more bleed through. Should I just keep carefully sanding until I hopefully make it disappear?

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Freeman Keller

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I have never done a true faux binding but I frequently have light colored wood against something that I'm going to stain. When I do I put several fairly thick coats of vinyl sealer on (brushing it on with an artist's brush). I'll start with a couple of thinned coats to soak into the wood, then thick to protect it. I'll also mask over the sealer if possible. After the staining is done I scrape the sealer off with a scraper or box cutter blade. It works pretty well because the sealer is thick enough that the stain can't soak in. I also use DNA for the solvent for my stains but that shouldn't make any difference.

In my humble opinion that is the entire issue with faux binding - you have to keep the stains completely out of the "binding"
 

Freeman Keller

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I'll add that I probably would have masked that back away from the actual sharp edge and stained the main part of the body, then pulled the mask and applied stain with a small brush working my way to the break. Yea, it would take more time but what I have learned with stains is they are pretty hard to undo.
 

Jsil13

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I have never done a true faux binding but I frequently have light colored wood against something that I'm going to stain. When I do I put several fairly thick coats of vinyl sealer on (brushing it on with an artist's brush). I'll start with a couple of thinned coats to soak into the wood, then thick to protect it. I'll also mask over the sealer if possible. After the staining is done I scrape the sealer off with a scraper or box cutter blade. It works pretty well because the sealer is thick enough that the stain can't soak in. I also use DNA for the solvent for my stains but that shouldn't make any difference.

In my humble opinion that is the entire issue with faux binding - you have to keep the stains completely out of the "binding"

Yeah. I sprayed a few coats of shellac, but I guess I should have done some more. I did mask it as well. I did use DNA with the dye too.
I'll add that I probably would have masked that back away from the actual sharp edge and stained the main part of the body, then pulled the mask and applied stain with a small brush working my way to the break. Yea, it would take more time but what I have learned with stains is they are pretty hard to undo.

Next time if I decide to try this again I’ll try it with a brush.
 

pypa

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It appears that the dye has highlighted scratches. I could be wrong, but this leads me to believe that some of the peripheral scratches were not adequately sanded out, so the masking tape couldn't seal properly.

When I've done bevels or sharp edges like that, it's a problem I have too; I don't want to mess up the sharp line so I always leave some sanding scratches that don't show up until the final finish.

Have you tried to use a sharp card scraper to refine the edges? It'll be more aggressive than the sandpaper and will get beneath the scratches and may get the black out. This might mean your edge will be pushed in marginally in spots, but I suspect nobody will notice...
 

Jsil13

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It appears that the dye has highlighted scratches. I could be wrong, but this leads me to believe that some of the peripheral scratches were not adequately sanded out, so the masking tape couldn't seal properly.

When I've done bevels or sharp edges like that, it's a problem I have too; I don't want to mess up the sharp line so I always leave some sanding scratches that don't show up until the final finish.

Have you tried to use a sharp card scraper to refine the edges? It'll be more aggressive than the sandpaper and will get beneath the scratches and may get the black out. This might mean your edge will be pushed in marginally in spots, but I suspect nobody will notice...
That’s definitely a possibility. I don’t have any card scrapers, but I’ve been looking for an excuse to go to Woodcraft.
 

Beebe

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Yeah you want to mask on a flat surface so there is no way for anything to sneak under. I build up layers of shellac and then sand back until all the shiny spots are gone... like prepping a final finish for polishing. Then tape.

When doing it like this, I'm able to spray pigmented shellac over the mask without it dissolving far enough into the shellac below to get under the tape. As long as I spray the first few color passes very light and let them dry fully between passes.

You may have been able to use water to dilute the dye. The DNA will dissolve the shellac unless you put it on with super light passes that allow it to flash off before dissolving the layers below.

You should be able to keep sanding until it's out but it looks like it snuck into some grain so it might be pretty deep.

You could also do a stripe to hide it, or an opaque color on the contour, or a burst.
 
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ChicknPickn

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I've used Trans-Tint dye enough to know its tendencies. I'd be very, very surprised if you could scrape that away.
 

eallen

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I do a lot of faux binding & a lot of dye. It is the nature. A couple things indo to avoid it.

If doing a sand back apply the dye & sand it back before doijg any adjoining cut away or chamfer areas. Follow with a nice coat of sealer in the area that won't get dye. If you are using alcohol based dye using shellac with is also alcohol based is an automatic bust since the dye eats the sealer.

After sealing use AUTOBODY safe tape. Painters tape from the box store doesn't even work well for latex pain much less for solvent products. For true full proof I spray a light coat of sealer over the tape edge & top prior to spraying my final dye color. If doing a sand back dye there is no advantage to wiping the final dye on bare wood over spray but a whole lot less control. If spraying is not an option make sure the tape edge is well applied & avoid a wet sloppy dye puddle along the tape line. Put on multiple thin coats instead.

Once dye is finished remove the tape & lightly scrape any seepage off. Seal the whole body, level sand, & proceed with finish.

Eric
 

Jsil13

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I do a lot of faux binding & a lot of dye. It is the nature. A couple things indo to avoid it.

If doing a sand back apply the dye & sand it back before doijg any adjoining cut away or chamfer areas. Follow with a nice coat of sealer in the area that won't get dye. If you are using alcohol based dye using shellac with is also alcohol based is an automatic bust since the dye eats the sealer.

After sealing use AUTOBODY safe tape. Painters tape from the box store doesn't even work well for latex pain much less for solvent products. For true full proof I spray a light coat of sealer over the tape edge & top prior to spraying my final dye color. If doing a sand back dye there is no advantage to wiping the final dye on bare wood over spray but a whole lot less control. If spraying is not an option make sure the tape edge is well applied & avoid a wet sloppy dye puddle along the tape line. Put on multiple thin coats instead.

Once dye is finished remove the tape & lightly scrape any seepage off. Seal the whole body, level sand, & proceed with finish.

Eric

Thanks Eric. Next time if I decide to try this again I'll do the carve after I do the dye. I still can't get the spots to go away. I've been hitting it with a sanding block with 120, files, my orbital sander with 120, a razor blade, a pretty aggressive rasp, and pretty much everything but my Shinto rasp. I'm taking a break with it until tomorrow.
 

eallen

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Thanks Eric. Next time if I decide to try this again I'll do the carve after I do the dye. I still can't get the spots to go away. I've been hitting it with a sanding block with 120, files, my orbital sander with 120, a razor blade, a pretty aggressive rasp, and pretty much everything but my Shinto rasp. I'm taking a break with it until tomorrow.
Dye soaks deep onto bare wood fibers! The catch was using shellac to seal & DA dye solution. It just soaked thru the shellac.

A cheat salvage option since the bare wood looks to just be clear is to take the tip of an razor/utility knife and sort of slice out the dyed fibers in the direction of the grain. Fill the recessed slits with CA & sand level. Follow with sealer or clear accordingly.
 

Jsil13

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Dye soaks deep onto bare wood fibers! The catch was using shellac to seal & DA dye solution. It just soaked thru the shellac.

A cheat salvage option since the bare wood looks to just be clear is to take the tip of an razor/utility knife and sort of slice out the dyed fibers in the direction of the grain. Fill the recessed slits with CA & sand level. Follow with sealer or clear accordingly.

I still haven't gone back to trying to fix it yet. That is an idea that I may try. I've also thought about doing a lighter shade of black on the binding and contour. Right now I'm working on grain filling the limba. I should have just used the Zpoxy to seal the sides.
IMG_1818.jpeg
 

Freeman Keller

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I had an old PRS SE22 cross my workbench the other day and was really impressed by how sharp they make the transition between the "binding" and the top and side. I'm thinking that this was done with tinted finish and not stains

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The "binding" has a small radius that tells me it was scraped at an angle. The top has a lot of flame but I don't see it coming thru on the side of the "binding". Not sure what it means but I thought I would share.
 

gb Custom Shop

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I had an old PRS SE22 cross my workbench the other day and was really impressed by how sharp they make the transition between the "binding" and the top and side. I'm thinking that this was done with tinted finish and not stains

View attachment 1034553


View attachment 1034554


The "binding" has a small radius that tells me it was scraped at an angle. The top has a lot of flame but I don't see it coming thru on the side of the "binding". Not sure what it means but I thought I would share.
Those PRS SE's have a flame veneer over a plain maple top. I do also think those SE's are sprayed and not hand stained like most of their American counterparts.
 

Jsil13

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After many attempts to sand through or rasp out the dye I think I've decided to dye it a lighter black. What the plan is is when I get to the thinned coat of Zpoxy for the limba I'll brush some on the sides and cut it in like I'm painting a wall by the ceiling. This time I'll use water with the dye. I'll do some color tests first, but it will be a bit before I get to attempt it. I also need some better tape.
 

Freeman Keller

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Those PRS SE's have a flame veneer over a plain maple top. I do also think those SE's are sprayed and not hand stained like most of their American counterparts.
That explains a lot, thank you. Jsil, sorry for the thread drift - when I think of faux binding I think PRS and this just looked too good.
 




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