Toneshaper 4 way switch wiring problems

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Cleantone, May 30, 2021.

  1. Cleantone

    Cleantone TDPRI Member

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    I'm trying to install a 4 way switch in my G&L ASAT Tribute. The results should be:
    Position 4: neck
    Position 3: neck + bridge (series)
    Position 2: neck + bridge (parallel)
    Position 1: bridge

    I've followed the wiring instructions as found here. ToneShapers-Wiring-Diagram-Fender-Telecaster-TE-SS3. Here are the results I've gotten:
    Position 4 is correct.
    Position 3 seems to be only the neck
    Position 2 is neck + bridge
    Position 1 is neck + bridge

    I have double checked and rewired all the connections. When I connected only one pickup at a time the positions worked as expected.

    Has anyone encountered this issue?

    I would appreciate any help or corrections to what I've done so far. Here is a picture of my handiwork.
    IMG_5193.JPG
     
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  2. Geo

    Geo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Similar scenario had here was the little jumper wire or wire end crossover on a switch tab.
    I took tweezers moving wires with guitar running thru amp to finally locate the bad contact.
    It was an end that looked fine solder wise but was loose and not connecting.
     
  3. jfgesquire

    jfgesquire Tele-Afflicted

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    That's the way I like a 4 way and I used the same diagram without issue.

    Just double check that the two neck pickup leads go to the switch and the cover ground goes to ground. And has the cover been separated from the pickup lead?

    I see a another black wire coming from the neck pickup route (3 black, one white, 4 total) is that a body cavity ground?

    20200709_112433.jpg
     
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  4. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

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    The position 1 and position 3 would act this way if the cover lead and the black wire from the neck pickup were connected. As @jfgesquire wrote the cover must be separate from the pick up wires.

    Lift the cover lead from the pot and see if this works.
     
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  5. eallen

    eallen Friend of Leo's

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    Hard tell for sure. A clearer pic would help if you can get one. The toneshapers diagram is correct.

    Pic always may solder joints look bad so I could be wrong but it looks like some of your joints are cold soldered which could provide inadequate continuity.
     
  6. rstaaf

    rstaaf Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    EDIT: Never mind, I see you do have 3 wires coming from the neck pickup.

    Make sure you have removed the jumper for the neck pickup cover and wired a separate ground for it.

    Untitled.png
     
  7. Fendereedo

    Fendereedo Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think if you see the OP's pic, they have two black wires from the neck pickup grounded to to the volume pot, and the white wire from the neck wired to the correct switch lug. I think it's the Toneshaper diagram that has the jumper on the pickup.
     
  8. Fendereedo

    Fendereedo Poster Extraordinaire

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    I wish my soldering was as neat as that lol.
     
  9. rstaaf

    rstaaf Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    I think you missed this part of my post: "EDIT: Never mind, I see you do have 3 wires coming from the neck pickup."
     
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  10. Fendereedo

    Fendereedo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yes, sorry I think I was writing when you edited sorry about that. In which case ignore my post. :cool:
     
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  11. Cleantone

    Cleantone TDPRI Member

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    @jfgesquire Yes that 4th wire is a cavity ground.

    @Lowerleftcoast THANK YOU! The pickup cover ground was the solution. I zoomed in on the wire diagram and saw that the new ground wire was indeed separate from the pickup wires. The difference between how the wires are shown in the diagram vs my pickup threw me so I had previously soldered the cover ground with the pickup ground. I moved it to where the cover attached to the pickup base, dead center between the pickup wires (maybe a bit hard to see below). Now I'm getting the pickup selections as expected. I love my new guitar now!

    Can you explain to me why the cover ground causes such significant changes in the pickup selections? A main reason I got this guitar was to do these projects myself and learn more about how these things work, so would appreciate the background on this. A likely future project will be upgrading the pickups, so I'll be back in there again.

    IMG_5195.JPG
     
  12. rstaaf

    rstaaf Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    Might be worth double checking the work on the neck pickup to make sure nothing is amiss on the work cutting the jumper and adding the cover ground wire.

    Any better pictures of that than the one you just posted?
    It is hard to see what is going on there, seems right but...
     
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  13. Cleantone

    Cleantone TDPRI Member

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    Thanks @rstaaf. It was where I had placed the new pickup cover ground wire, see post above which I was writing when you posted.
     
  14. Lowerleftcoast

    Lowerleftcoast Friend of Leo's

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    I was typing when jfgesquire beat me to the solution to your query. You should thank him as well.
    I will try... Have a look at the ToneShapers diagram. The neck pickup shows the white and black for the hot and ground pickup connections. The yellow wire connects to the cover of the pickup. The cover is only a shield it does not carry guitar signal. It performs the same function as shielded guitar cavities. It functions as a Faraday Cage.

    (Still using the white, black, and yellow diagram colors)... Your neck pickup had the cover connected to the pickup coil black wire. The black and yellow wires carried the same signal when in position 1 and position 3.

    The ToneShapers layout shows the black wire switched by the 4 Way switch but the yellow wire carries the same signal as the black wire. The yellow wire is not switched. It is always connected to ground.

    Since the black and yellow are connected, the switch could not remove the black wire connection to ground because the yellow wire is attached to ground. In order for the neck and bridge pickups to be in series, the black wire had to be disconnected from ground.

    If I did not explain it well enough, give a shout and I will try to 'splain better.
    ________________________________________________________________

    (The yellow wire could be deleted or connected to the switch along with the black wire. The neck cover Faraday Cage shielding would not function when the switch was in the *pickups in series* position 3 though.)(Wiring it like the ToneShapers diagram maintains the neck cover Faraday Cage in all positions.)
     
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  15. Cleantone

    Cleantone TDPRI Member

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    Yes, thank you @jfgesquire for calling out the cover ground in the first place. I had focused the reply only on the cavity wire. THANKS!!

    Thanks to all who took time to reply. I love the support on this discussion board.
     
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  16. jfgesquire

    jfgesquire Tele-Afflicted

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    Thanks for the nod! It was totally an afterthought on my part, added after I completed my post. This board can be tough to judge someone’s experience level. It seemed too obvious, but that’s only because I’ve already wired a few; so I went back and added that comment.


    I do OK, but I’m always learning or trying new techniques.

    I am seriously willing to wire up anyone's control plate if they live near me. I work for food!


    This is where I learned!
     
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  17. Fendereedo

    Fendereedo Poster Extraordinaire

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    I've done 3 Tele's, 2 Strat's and a Duo Sonic now. I actually find it therapeutic these days, but yeah, I don't mind wiring for someone in trouble for free. I cook my own food though lol.
     
  18. jfgesquire

    jfgesquire Tele-Afflicted

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    There's some good pizzerias close by and I'm just outside Buffalo, NY, so wings are done right and always accepted.

    After doing surface capacitors on my friend's Yamaha acoustic pre amp, Message_1571697673992.jpg 20191019_034931.jpg board.jpg Telecasters seem huge!
     
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  19. Cleantone

    Cleantone TDPRI Member

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    Dang, I was hoping Lake View was in Colorado! I have a 10-way Strat selector switch I'm not yet willing to do on my own.
     
  20. Fendereedo

    Fendereedo Poster Extraordinaire

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    You more than earn those wings. That's some serious solder work. Great work.
     
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