majorbugout
Tele-Meister
Thanks for posting about Poodle's, I never heard of them before. Nice very compact designs. Looks like good a great option if you wanted to stuff a few things into a single enclosure.
Tonebenders for Dummies
- Thread starter Rich_S
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11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
Actually, the Twin Bender makes it pretty clear that you could build a MkII and have a pair of switches to turn it into a Mk1.5. I'm pretty sure that the fat switch is actually a choice between the bypass cap value on the attack/fuzz pot.
...To switch in/out the MkII portions requires a 3-pole switch - you'd need something more uncommon if going to a 4-pole switch to change the bypass cap at the same time. I bet Ramble found out that switching that cap separately was probably kind of advantageous despite the mode - lot of people complain about a Fuzz Face being a bit too dark - that's a great way to nix the issue.
Anyway - the switching changes are SO EASY to add to an otherwise stock MkII that I altered a schem to represent them. I threw in a bias pot "just because" - it doesn't need to be externally accessible, and could just be a trimpot.
Another idea would be to use pots with switches on them - you'd have no toggles at all, and the thing could look super stealth!
For anyone who's already built a MkII and would like the flexibility of it also being a Mk1.5, IMO you don't need to build another pedal from scratch.
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11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
By the way - I know there's been some discussion of a silicon version MkII, and some slick tweakers have come up with some neat stuff.
I can't vouch for this one personally, but it seems like people who've tried it pretty much agree that it sounds great. Whether or not that means it sounds like a MkII I wouldn't know.
It looks like they knocked the gains down by adding emitter resistors where a MkII doesn't have any, and the .022uF cap bypassing the 1K resistor should really cut the bandwidth in a manner similar to a germanium (the Axis Face uses a .033uF cap in the same location to mellow things out).
And - this one has a tone control. I'd normally say not to bother, but it might mellow out things just that little bit more - might help with using silicons.
I figure while we're trying to get all these options out on the table, it doesn't hurt to mention ALL the options we can think of. So here's one more.
I can't vouch for this one personally, but it seems like people who've tried it pretty much agree that it sounds great. Whether or not that means it sounds like a MkII I wouldn't know.
It looks like they knocked the gains down by adding emitter resistors where a MkII doesn't have any, and the .022uF cap bypassing the 1K resistor should really cut the bandwidth in a manner similar to a germanium (the Axis Face uses a .033uF cap in the same location to mellow things out).
And - this one has a tone control. I'd normally say not to bother, but it might mellow out things just that little bit more - might help with using silicons.
I figure while we're trying to get all these options out on the table, it doesn't hurt to mention ALL the options we can think of. So here's one more.
i had a 3 knob tonebender (PE Yardbox), having a tone (treble/bass) knob was useful. it also had a gain knob but I dont know what it did.
it had 4 knobs yet it was a 3knob TB :?:
cool pedal if you want that early jeff beck/pagey yardbirds tones.
it pretty much nailed over under sideways down
that pedal sucks by itself though, be warned.
my mkII on the otherhand sounds lovely into my twin reverb
some fuzz need a dirty amp or a good goose from a dirt pedal.
it had 4 knobs yet it was a 3knob TB :?:
cool pedal if you want that early jeff beck/pagey yardbirds tones.
it pretty much nailed over under sideways down
that pedal sucks by itself though, be warned.
my mkII on the otherhand sounds lovely into my twin reverb
some fuzz need a dirty amp or a good goose from a dirt pedal.
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
I'm not in a position to do another schem, but it dawned on me that it could be done even more simply than shown above.
You'd basically just need "another" 5uF input cap, and then you'd just need a DPDT switch for:
MkII input - input cap, cap to ground, 3rd transistor and all of its associated parts, with the switch connection on the output, or
Mk1.5 input - "second" input cap, connects after all the add'l MkII stuff.
BTW - there's an error in that particular schematic! There's no .1uF coming off the collector of Q1. I thought maybe I omitted it with my alterations, but no - it's just wrong!
So - the switching from MkII to Mk1.5 will have to happen after that .1uF cap.
If you use this 2nd method I mention to switch around Q1 and everything with it, you could actually use a 3PDT to include the bypass cap "fat switching" at the fuzz/attack pot. Use a 4PDT footswitch, and you can wire up a "mode" LED.
thinkdifferent
Tele-Meister
11 Gauge
Doctor of Teleocity
My pleasure - I have an affinity for at least the foundation of these old fuzz designs.
In 2014, there are so many tricks and techniques to make them more flexible or just plain perform better than was ever intended almost a half a century ago. It's hard to remember that even mass produced (and therefore more consistent and CHEAP) silicon transistors were not yet available when these pedals made their debut.
I also like that the Tonebender MkII in particular represents a great instance of demonstrating the "you can't do that" aspect is false - specifically referring to the use of silicon transistors for it. While Tonebender junkies would probably say that there is an absolute sonic difference, I'd just let them go about "likely being fooled by their own ears." Actually - their ears "don't lie" - it's the brain behaving as a filter that alters the impression.
I think the Twin Bender is also a neat representation of how technological assistance can help with these old designs, even if it's just "housekeeping 101" with the relay switching and voltage inverter. After all, it was already mentioned that these old circuit designs are so crude that they can be made "negative ground WRT the enclosure" w/o a need for voltage inversion.
...So again - basic DIY applies, and can keep things simple and affordable.
And - if you can avoid the issue of obsolete transistors, IMO it increases the "fun factor" with rolling your own substantially.
why does a fuzzface clean up better than a tonebender? is it the trannies?
I read that 81s clean up better than oc75s maybe thats why mine doesnt clean up well
listen to Sons of Adam version of Mr Youre a Better Man than I
randy holden is using a fuzzface and it goes from edge of breakup/hair to full-on fuzz. I cant do that with my tonebender (it sounds like poop when i roll the volume on my guitar down)
what is the deal? lol
I read that 81s clean up better than oc75s maybe thats why mine doesnt clean up well
listen to Sons of Adam version of Mr Youre a Better Man than I
randy holden is using a fuzzface and it goes from edge of breakup/hair to full-on fuzz. I cant do that with my tonebender (it sounds like poop when i roll the volume on my guitar down)
what is the deal? lol
bricksnbeatles
Tele-Afflicted
Anybody know where to get a tonebender style enclosure for when I make my own? I don't need the guts as I will do that myself, just a similar looking enclosure.
HonenShonin
Tele-Meister
Man, surfoverb, that's a great question. I recently bought a Havalina, which I like, but it doesn't clean up very well with the volume knob. Dialing back the volume does reduce the extreme quality of the fuzz, but it doesn't get you anywhere near clean. What you get instead is a kazoo-like sputtery sound, with your notes chopped off at the end when the signal falls below a certain threshold.
In contrast, the little red Dunlop fuzz face I briefly owned would actually give you a usable almost-clean sound when you rolled back the volume.
What is up with that?
In contrast, the little red Dunlop fuzz face I briefly owned would actually give you a usable almost-clean sound when you rolled back the volume.
What is up with that?
The schematic I'm looking at has a 100n cap between Q1 and Q2; which 11 Gauge mentioned earlier should be there. Perhaps he or someone will confirm that.
My schematic is from Poodle's Pedal Parts, who I notice changed his name today to "FuzzDog's Pedal Parts"!
I also see it on this schematic http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/mkII.php
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Well I went ahead and ordered some parts, I'm going to have a go at making a Tonebender that switches from Mk 1.5 to Mk II.
Also because my enclosure has two extra holes, and it's looking pretty easy, I'm thinking I'll make the Mk II side of things switchable between a Sola Sound Tonebender Mk II, a Marshall Superfuzz, and a Vox Tonebender. Or nearly anyway, just won't be able to adjust Q2s collector on the fly if necessary. Also being in those other two settings would alter some components in the Mk 1.5 version too, so that could be bad, or good... This is way beyond my pay-grade, so I expect a massive trainwreck!
Also because my enclosure has two extra holes, and it's looking pretty easy, I'm thinking I'll make the Mk II side of things switchable between a Sola Sound Tonebender Mk II, a Marshall Superfuzz, and a Vox Tonebender. Or nearly anyway, just won't be able to adjust Q2s collector on the fly if necessary. Also being in those other two settings would alter some components in the Mk 1.5 version too, so that could be bad, or good... This is way beyond my pay-grade, so I expect a massive trainwreck!
fwiw there is an easy tonebender to fuzzface mod for the BYOC version.
I never looked into though other than I know of one.
switching from mkI.5 to fuzzface might be cool, but it also might be useless being as they are so similar.
what trannies will be servicing you? Ive heard nothing but good about the 81s, which according to the
D*A*M people (who really know their tonebenders) clean up the best. Mine has oc75s and they work great for fuzz
but there's little clean up. It goes from a lot of fuzz to A LOT of fuzz and not much in between.
Great pedal though I love it, had it since 2007.
Viva La Tonebender!
yup...pretty much. the best it does is get thin and wimpy sounding
