Tone Master Princeton or 68 Vibro Champ Reverb

[wineocaster]

I’m looking for a lighter weight amp. I’m currently using a PRRI and I’m intrigued by one of these two amps. I like having reverb and trem onboard. I’m curious if anyone has compared these two and your thoughts? My local store doesn’t have either in stock.

I’m drawn to the 68 VCR because I don’t have a 5W amp and although it has a PC board it is still a tube amp. Cons are the digital reverb, a speaker swap seems to be a must and I’ve heard about QC issues.

I like the option of being able to DI out of the TM Princeton and attenuate the volume. I also have several 8 ohm 10” speakers I can try. Cons here are QC issues and reliability of the newer technology. I also don’t like that these are made in China.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Wildeman]

I'd go VC myself, sweet little amp.

 

[Controller]

Line out to the PA is a really nice feature. It gives you another option in certain settings.

You probably should play them both. For me, playing them first is usually not an option.

 

[68goldtop]

Hi!

I’m looking for a lighter weight amp. I’m currently using a PRRI and I’m intrigued by one of these two amps...

The Vibro-Champ will be very much like your PRRI in terms of construction (except for the reverb...) - but with a lower output and (slightly) less weight...
The TM Princeton is a bit lighter, too, but might be quite different in terms of construction, feel and tone...

I don´t think the DI-out is THAT big of a deal.
People used little boxes for this for decades

cheers - 68.

 

[trandy9850]

The TM Princeton Reverb is 12 watts instead of 5 watts…..the power scaling and DI out are very handy features….and it weighs 1.5 lbs. less than the VC.

I know which one I would buy.

BTW….mine says hello.

 

[scelestus]

The TM Princeton Reverb is 12 watts instead of 5 watts…..the power scaling and DI out are very handy features….and it weighs 1.5 lbs. less than the VC.

I know which one I would buy.

BTW….mine says hello.

Did you get a chance to A/B with the PRRI? I have done that with the Deluxes and there's a tiny difference in tone. I suspect it's down to the speakers.

Both Princetons have ceramic speakers, so I bet they're even closer. I ask for that reason - not to reopen an Internet Can of Worms!

 

[trandy9850]

Did you get a chance to A/B with the PRRI? I have done that with the Deluxes and there's a tiny difference in tone. I suspect it's down to the speakers.

Both Princetons have ceramic speakers, so I bet they're even closer. I ask for that reason - not to reopen an Internet Can of Worms!

I have…and the difference IMO is so slight I stopped worrying about it.

My take is this: Is the TM Princeton Reverb a good amplifier?

The answer is a resounding “yes”.

Does it sound exactly like a PRRI?

The answer is “no”.

Now here’s the important part: Who cares?

It’s still a great amp that sounds wonderful and does the job it was meant to do very well.

AND….the lack of weight factor sure doesn’t hurt some of us more “experienced” guys.

 

[scelestus]

I have…and the difference IMO is so slight I stopped worrying about it.

My take is this: Is the TM Princeton Reverb a good amplifier?

The answer is a resounding “yes”.

Does it sound exactly like a PRRI?

The answer is “no”.

Now here’s the important part: Who cares?

It’s still a great amp that sounds wonderful and does the job it was meant to do very well.

AND….the lack of weight factor sure doesn’t hurt some of us more “experienced” guys.

I don't care either, I was just curious because of the speaker. I love my TMDR!

Thanks for humoring my question.

 

[wineocaster]

Thanks for the input. I stopped by the shop today, they have a TMPR in stock now but wouldn’t be able to order a 68 VCR until early April. The guys at the shop said they’d order one in for me to try.

 

[wineocaster]

I have…and the difference IMO is so slight I stopped worrying about it.

My take is this: Is the TM Princeton Reverb a good amplifier?

The answer is a resounding “yes”.

Does it sound exactly like a PRRI?

The answer is “no”.

Now here’s the important part: Who cares?

It’s still a great amp that sounds wonderful and does the job it was meant to do very well.

AND….the lack of weight factor sure doesn’t hurt some of us more “experienced” guys.

Thanks for your info.

Have you tried swapping the speakers in your TMPR? How is the tremolo? Does it have a broader range (slower) than the PRRI? Have you done any of the firmware updates? As a more ‘experienced’ player, as you put it, the thought of updating firmware seems daunting. Are there any mods that are offered for the amp through these updates?

 

[trandy9850]

Thanks for your info.

Have you tried swapping the speakers in your TMPR? How is the tremolo? Does it have a broader range (slower) than the PRRI? Have you done any of the firmware updates? As a more ‘experienced’ player, as you put it, the thought of updating firmware seems daunting. Are there any mods that are offered for the amp through these updates?

I haven’t tried swapping speakers, I’ve done no firmware updates, the tremolo seems fine for my purposes (which are about zero….I can’t remember the last time I used any tremolo)…the “experienced“ reference was about my age…although I guess you could call me an experienced guitarist after 58 years of playing.

Mods? I’m not trying to be a smart a**, but I really do like it just the way it is….if I tried to mod it in some fashion I might mess it up…so no…no mods for me.

YMMV

 

[MaxPower93]

I’ve had the 68 Vibro Champ for a year now. I did have a tube go bad about 2 months in. Fender covered that at no cost. I didn’t find the need to swap speakers. I actually like the digital hall reverb I think it sounds good. It’s a great little amplifier. As far as the China situation, unfortunately that’s the world we live in today. If it was USA made it would be probably 2 grand. I can’t compare it to the Princeton tonemaster.

 

[47adelynn47]

i'd say if you need the 12 watts buy the tm but but if your thinking just pure tone then get the vc...it's hard to beat

 

[Tony65x55]

I love Princetons. I have a few. I have a 1968 PR, a 1976 PR with 12" speaker, a Luckhurst HW Blackface clone with 12" speaker, A standard 65 RI and a 12" 65 RI. My newest is a TMPR and it's great.

It's my third TM. I have the TMDR and the TMSR as well. Like many Fender amps the stock speakers are usually decided by profit margins and advertising, not sound quality. Consequently, I have swapped out the speakers in my TMDR and the TMPR. I did not touch the Super Reverb as the choice to install 4 x Jensen P10Rs could not have been a more perfect selection in any way and the amp is pure killer. The TMDR has a Jensen C12Q and sounds amazingly like a tube DR and the little TMPR benefitted greatly from an Eminence Copperhead - a stellar PR speaker if there ever was one.

I have now gigged the TM Princeton three times and am very pleased with the superb sound and great portability. As an FYI I play in a classic rock band with a live drummer and the TMPR keeps up just fine since the speaker swap. The reverb and trem are both excellent and the attenuator in the back permits the softest of volume levels with excellent sound quality for quiet time - even off completely and with the terrific DI - the best I've ever used - amazing FoH sound quality.

 

[wineocaster]

I haven’t tried swapping speakers, I’ve done no firmware updates, the tremolo seems fine for my purposes (which are about zero….I can’t remember the last time I used any tremolo)…the “experienced“ reference was about my age…although I guess you could call me an experienced guitarist after 58 years of playing.

Mods? I’m not trying to be a smart a**, but I really do like it just the way it is….if I tried to mod it in some fashion I might mess it up…so no…no mods for me.

YMMV

I figured your ‘experienced’ comment was regarding age. LOL As I get more experienced the smaller my amps are getting. With age comes wisdom.

Thanks for your help.

 

[wineocaster]

I love Princetons. I have a few. I have a 1968 PR, a 1976 PR with 12" speaker, a Luckhurst HW Blackface clone with 12" speaker, A standard 65 RI and a 12" 65 RI. My newest is a TMPR and it's great.

It's my third TM. I have the TMDR and the TMSR as well. Like many Fender amps the stock speakers are usually decided by profit margins and advertising, not sound quality. Consequently, I have swapped out the speakers in my TMDR and the TMPR. I did not touch the Super Reverb as the choice to install 4 x Jensen P10Rs could not have been a more perfect selection in any way and the amp is pure killer. The TMDR has a Jensen C12Q and sounds amazingly like a tube DR and the little TMPR benefitted greatly from an Eminence Copperhead - a stellar PR speaker if there ever was one.

I have now gigged the TM Princeton three times and am very pleased with the superb sound and great portability. As an FYI I play in a classic rock band with a live drummer and the TMPR keeps up just fine since the speaker swap. The reverb and trem are both excellent and the attenuator in the back permits the softest of volume levels with excellent sound quality for quiet time - even off completely and with the terrific DI - the best I've ever used - amazing FoH sound quality.

Thanks for the the input.

I agree with you I have a Copperhead in my 65 PRRI it is a fantastic speaker. I have a second Copperhead sitting in a box that would likely make its way in to the TMPR if that is the route I choose.

 

[Mike M]

I have both, and to be honest, you can't go wrong with either, but the The TMPR is more versatile, especially from a volume perspective.

The TMPR has Spring Reverb, instead of Digital Hall Reverb (which is surprisingly good!), and they both have great Tube Bias Tremolo, my favorite.

 

[68goldtop]

Hi!

... The TMPR has Spring Reverb, instead of Digital Hall Reverb (which is surprisingly good!), and they both have great Tube Bias Tremolo, my favorite.

Glad to hear that you like your amps!
But, may I say that I doubt that the TM has "Tube Bias Tremolo"?

cheers - 68.

 

[Mike M]

Hi!

Glad to hear that you like your amps!
But, may I say that I doubt that the TM has "Tube Bias Tremolo"?

cheers - 68.

Yes sorry, a digital "tube Bias Tremolo". but still prefer that to the digital "photo cell Tremolo" on the other TM's.

 

[fretknot]

I have the VC Reverb and I'm quite happy with it for my purposes. I would suggest giving the speaker time to break in before swapping it out. It takes a good 8-10 hours of play before it starts to loosen up, then it's a very good match for the circuit. I'm for the tube amp vs the Digital. I was in the same position before purchasing the VCR, but was looking at the Deluxe Tone Master. I'm glad I went with the VCR.