Tone loss issue. Input appreciated!

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by 6BQ5, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. 6BQ5

    6BQ5 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,067
    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    So I'm having an issue with tone loss. To the degree that I have been considering just paring down my pedal chain to the bare essentials (five pedals). More than those five and the tone loss becomes unacceptable to me. An additional buffer didn't help, and neither did a loop switcher. So I had a thought just now. My amp has two inputs. What if I were to run a chain of pedals into one input, and another into the second input, and then switch back and forth between them with an a/b/y box. Sure I wouldn't get to use some pedals with some others, but that would be true anyway if I have to leave them out of the chain altogether. Has anyone tried this? Would it work? Is there any consequences of using both inputs on an amp simultaneously, even if only one is getting a signal at any given time?
     
  2. watercaster

    watercaster Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    157
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2010
    Location:
    NY
    I'm sure that would work fine. I have amps with as many as four inputs and back in the day when no one had money, all the guitars and mics too were plugged into the same amp all at the same time. Didn't sound the greatest mix but it worked.
     
  3. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    18,996
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    If you haven't gone through the board pedal by pedal and patch cable by patch cable, now would be the time. What pedals are they, which ones cause the tone loss? Is it two pedals in a certain order that is causing it?

    I think your idea should work. It is fun to play with a lead channel and a rhythm channel.
     
  4. DaveKS

    DaveKS Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,712
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2013
    Location:
    KS
    You got a loop switcher, as posted above set down, put patch cables as a jumper in loop one at time, weed out any bad ones. Now you've got 2 good patch cables, now put each pedal one at time in loop and find out which ones are the culprits. If you have a looper it very easy to find the problem children in the chain, those are the ones that go in looper or get replaced/removed.
     
  5. RetroTeleRod

    RetroTeleRod Poster Extraordinaire

    Age:
    55
    Posts:
    6,145
    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2012
    Location:
    Oklahoma, USA
    I can relate to the problem. I ditched a compressor the other day when I finally figured out which pedal was causing my tone loss...not to mention adding a lot of hiss to the chain. As an added bonus, I've discovered I'm not really a compressor sort of guy. (at least with my Vox AC-15)
     
  6. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    1,708
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Location:
    Atlanta
    5 pedals is not bare essentials.
     
  7. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    18,996
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Good point!! We all have to play guitar the same way after all, right? It's like a law or something?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. luckett

    luckett Banned

    Posts:
    3,614
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2011
    Location:
    .
    If you're getting still getting tone suck when all the pedals are bypassed with the looper like you said, the patch cables are not the problem. It might be the cable between the pedals and the amp. Try plugging straight into the amp with that cable and see what happens.
     
  9. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    20,509
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    How the loop switcher is used makes a difference.
    A single loop can isolate a string of pedals or just one, and you can use several loops to allow an unlimited number of pedals connected but as few as zero in the signal chain.
    If all pedals are switched out of the loop and there is still tone loss it must be cables.
     
  10. semi-hollowbody

    semi-hollowbody TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    76
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2013
    Location:
    Metro Detroit, MI
    this
    you already cut down the number of pedals in your chain when u added the switcher (assuming its a quality switcher) and it didn't work...so the number of pedals aint the problem

    were ALL your pedals in the switcher when u tried this?? If not, then one or more of the pedals NOT in the switcher is not playing nice

    run guitar-switcher-amp...with no pedals in the switcher...see if you notice tone loss

    tone loss is usually high end loss...maybe adding a pedal lol...an eq pedal is the answer...cable runs true bypass and no buffer issues usually result in high end loss...aka...tone suck

    NEVER EVER EVER start with removing pedals...never ever try and shrink your pedal board unless there is no other way...downsizing is evil and immoral...;)
     
  11. 6BQ5

    6BQ5 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,067
    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA

    I used the same cables both with and without the switcher. Is it possible that a 4 loop switcher is acting the same as having 4 true bypass pedals in a row in terms of causing high end loss?

    I'll try the looper only setup and report back. Thanks everyone.
     
  12. Doctorx33

    Doctorx33 Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    64
    Posts:
    1,708
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Thank you for that useless and smart assed remark.

    I was stating an opinion, one of many valid ones in this thread.
     
  13. 6BQ5

    6BQ5 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,067
    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA

    To be fair, your opinion offering wasn't exactly constructive, nor was it addressing the question originally posed.

    It's not just you of course, there seems to be an inevitability that whenever someone asks pedal related questions, someone will respond with some kind of generally "less is more" sentiment. It's frustrating.
     
  14. Hellmark

    Hellmark Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    549
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2015
    Location:
    O'Fallon, Mo
    When troubleshooting, 5 pedals isn't bare essentials. That's the thing, we're NOT talking about normal playing. We're talking about trying to diagnosing a problem. The more things you have in the mix from the start, the more difficult it is to diagnose the problem. We don't know if the tone issue is with the guitar, the amp, one of the 5 pedals, or the 7 cables in between everything.

    Start with just the guitar and amp. Do you have tone loss? If so, try another cable. Still have tone loss? Test if other guitars also have the tone loss. If you don't have tone loss yet, then plug in one of the pedals and test. Keep adding in until you do have tone loss. The last thing added is the culprit.

    Once the issue is solved, then you can go back to your normal gear.
     
  15. 6BQ5

    6BQ5 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,067
    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA



    Special thanks to you two gentlemen who answered the question that I asked. Much appreciated.
     
  16. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    20,509
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Maybe yes, but IDK which 4 TBP pedals you're comparing to which 4 loop switcher, and I'm not sure if all multi loop switchers are the same.

    It would be worth going back to Waparkers question asking specifically what pedals are giving you trouble in what arrangement.

    It is possible to use a loop switcher the same way you would use the two channels of your amp, if you can arrange several FX in a given loop, and use fewer loops.

    I guess it's probable that a 4 loop switcher would be exactly the same as 4 TBP pedals, except the patch cords would be replaced with whatever high or low quality internal wiring the switcher uses.
    But the option of running 12-16 pedals in the 4 loops puts the switcher way ahead of running 12-16 pedals at once.

    I don't use many pedals at once, but like the loop option to create banks of pedals I want to run together.
     
  17. waparker4

    waparker4 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    18,996
    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Yes, which is to say, not very much high end loss, IME.

    Then again, all my boards have something buffered in 'em. You might want to experiment with a buffered pedal before or after the 4-channel bypass looper
     
  18. 6BQ5

    6BQ5 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,067
    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA

    Yeah, I have a buffered pedal in the chain already, a j. Rockett archer. I also tried using a stand alone buffer at various points in the chain.
     
  19. RyanJH

    RyanJH Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    114
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    What exactly are the pedals in your chain? Some pedals just don't get along with others, some have terrible bypassing methods, low input impedances, high output impedances or any combination thereof...

    -Ryan
     
  20. 6BQ5

    6BQ5 Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,067
    Joined:
    May 31, 2010
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA

    Polytune>archer>dr. J green crystal>carbon copy>ditto looper. That all works well together. When I tried to add the voodoo lab tremolo between the crystal and the carbon copy the problem began. I also tried adding a red witch fuZz God just before the archer (buffered) which also didn't work so well. As long as I stick to the Polytune>archer>dr. J green crystal>carbon copy>ditto looper, all is well.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.