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Tom Petty ... Another Victim

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by FenderGyrl, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    A lot of ground has been covered in this thread. I thought I'd just add a few tidbits for consideration:

    1) There was a really good expose in the New Yorker a few months ago on how Big Pharma, in particular a specific family-owned company that marketed Oxycontin, convinced the medical industry to start freely prescribing opioids, using paid shills to publish
    papers that alleged that pain management was not being well done, and that the risk of addiction was way over-rated. There was a dramatic increase in opioid prescriptions which led to the crisis our nation faces today, and
    it was driven by greed. Even when the data started coming in, the companies making loads of $$ did their best to supress/discount/cloud matters so they could keep raking in the $.

    2) There are genetic predispositions to being addicted to various substances. They are well documented even if the genetic and metabolic details are still poorly understood. But, for example, Big Tobacco knew that they needed to get every kid to try it before age 16 or so, because after that the odds of even trying it wentway down. They also knew that there is a bell-shaped curve. All kids cough and almost vomit when they first try it. A bunch quit right there. But depending on how cool it is to smoke, a lot of them soldier on until they start to actually like it. Even then,
    only a small percentage get really hooked to where it is not just mentally but also extremely physically difficult to quit. Big Tobacco knew that only about 10% or less of humans have a strong genetic predisposition to getting severely hooked, but that as long as they could
    capture every one of those customers they would always make a lot of $$. Similarly, research has shown really dramatic differences in how certain segments of the population respond to food and alcohol. Rather than assume every obese person should just cut back on eating and that they are weak if they can't manage to do it, it may turn out that the way their limbic system and metabolism responds to food is significantly different from how your system responds. I've always been skinny, and my sister has always been chunky. It doesn't matter how much we eat or don't eat. My body's set point is to being skinny; hers is towards being chunky. Lots of Vietnam soldiers used heroin while in country. It was a way of self-medicating and dealing with an extremely difficult situation. Most of them were able to go cold turkey when they came home. But some of them were hooked and hooked hard. Could it be that they had a slightly different brain/body response to opioids that made it harder for them to quit, just as some find it easier to quit tobacco than others?

    3) That said, of course there are environmental factors as well. Most people who go down this road have a hole in their soul somewhere, usually created by something less than a happy family. My first cousin who is more like a brother has a history of addiction. He told me that
    the hardest thing is finding a way to fill up that hole. How to feel at peace when stone cold sober. If you're a "normal" person, you feel pretty good when you're stone cold sober, and partying is kind of a novelty thing to do once in awhile. But for an addictive person, they feel in agony when they are sober and need something to fill up the hole-- and many will try almost any drug just to escape the feeling of being sober. He grew up in a family with five siblings. He was the only one that became a substance abuser, but none of them came out of their upbringing without various issues and other dysfunctionalities.
     
  2. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    It was the Sackler Family, which controls Purdue Pharma. Oxycontin was a blockbuster drug earning them over $13B:

    https://www.wnyc.org/story/how-oxycontin-was-sold-masses-podcast/

    "When OxyContin first came onto the market, in 1995, it was branded as a breakthrough: a powerful opioid that would revolutionize pain management while minimizing the potential for addiction. It worked out very, very differently, as vast numbers of patients became hooked and sometimes turned to cheaper alternatives on the street, like heroin. A former pharmaceutical sales rep who became a whistle-blower explains to the New Yorker staff writer Patrick Radden Keefe how the marketing techniques worked. "
     
  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I could "like" this post but I'm wary of appearing to sign on to the idea that "big pharma" is responsible for the "drug epidemic".

    I am however aware that evidence has shown that the developer of oxycontin (which is different from oxycodone) knew that while it was drastically more addictive, it did not actually kill pain any better than the other prescription opiate pain meds already available.
    Still, the opioid epidemic began before oxycontin was brought to market.
    This is way too sensitive an area for me to voice opinions on.

    The whole fentanyl thing is not a new problem created by the drug companies, but rather it is because Chinese manufacturers of fentanyl now sell it online (and cheap) to anyone with a debit card and mailing address.
    There was a time when people set up labs to extract the fentanyl from patches.
    That's not very profitable...
     
  4. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    The way it was described to me-by a doctor-is that "genetics loads the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger."
     
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  5. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    This will get rough , but I have to do it . Free prescriptions and/or $5.00 co-pays have helped create pathways . Like it or not , if people had to pay for their prescriptions in full you would have seen far fewer active users . Hey man , it's free with my insurance card , rock and roll ! And , of course , hand them the script since we know that the insurance companies will pay . What a symbiosis and recipe for creating addicts .
     
  6. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    Maybe. I'm certainly no expert. That seems a bit easy and narrow, though, to me.

    In the broader sense of disease, not just addiction, of course it's inaccurate. You get cancer from something in your ground water ... it wasn't lifestyle. Same with my disease, which was caused by a gene, and a vaccine that my doctor recommended. I was trying to stay healthy!

    In the narrower addiction sense, "lifestyle pulls the trigger" still sounds like "make good choices" to me. It seems more likely to me that the lifestyle is the result, a symptom, not the cause.

    Not all people with a genetic propensity for addiction, turn out to exhibit addictive behavior. Wording this carefully to focus on actions, causes, effects, and avoid labels.

    Thinking about what my son said about feeling something since puberty, yet he never exhibited any tendency up to the point. Seems like one shoe had dropped (the genes), and the other might never. In his case, it seems it was me getting sick right around the time he was transitioning to adulthood, and probably a bunch of other things. Dropping out of college because he didn't know what he wanted to study, then finding himself in a crap 9-5 job. Stuff that might not have affected someone else this way. But in his case it was these other life events - not lifestyle - that ... I realize this is all speculation ... that he was unable to deal with in a normal, healthy way, and the drugs were the external crutch, an attempt to fill the hole. So, the "lifestyle" came last, as a result of the genetic and environmental factors both occurring.
     
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  7. GuitarJonz

    GuitarJonz Poster Extraordinaire

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    Jakeboy and telemnemonics like this.
  8. fortj3

    fortj3 Tele-Meister

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    I am fortunate in that, when I was prescribed oxy for my crushed hand, I hated the stuff. Absolutely hated it. It did not work at all for me.
    When my knee went out on election day 2016, the doctor's office gave me a muscle relaxer, instead of pain meds, for the pain.
    Honestly, Vicodin would have worked better for me, and gotten me back on my feet quicker.
    I have zero history of chemical dependence, but they still wouldn't give me any painkillers.
    I'm afraid that knee-jerk reactions to the opioid epidemic is going to keep more people who actually need them from getting them.

    I don't know what we're going to do about this epidemic.
    I don't know what we CAN do about it, without causing a bunch of unintended consequences.
    We are in quite a pickle.
     
  9. Mad Kiwi

    Mad Kiwi Friend of Leo's

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    What if Tom's daughter is right and he was just recently taking the meds to combat the hip prior to surgery.

    So that he could complete the tour, that he wasn't addicted and wasn't using them recreationally, purely as intended?

    And that he did have a loving and caring family that would know better?

    Why can't we all just believe that?

    Why does the internet have to blow this up out of proportion, maybe it WAS just a stuff up on his behalf?

    Why does everyone have to besmirch his own good name as they project their own experiences and suspicions on to his own situation?
     
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  10. viccortes285

    viccortes285 Tele-Afflicted

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    If Tom was never addicted before, I could believe her more. Yet he has had a long history over his career.
    No one can say we wasn't gifted, but he was addicted. Plus brought the drugs overseas, since not allowed in the US.
     
  11. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Love Tom, and in no way am I insinuating anything negative about his character, but one of the drugs found in his system is not available legally from any legitimate doctor. I'm guessing he was in a sh!tload of pain, and was doing what he thought was the best he could to complete the tour and then get his hip fixed. A lot of people were on his payroll, and I'm sure that was a consideration for him as well.
     
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