Tokai LP's - how good are they?

[nicknklv]

Seeing @tele_paul 's gorgeous Tokai LS95 and @Catawompus' s killer LS136 really put Tokai on my radar. I'd heard about them but thought that it was only the older 80s and 90s guitars people were hunting.

Looking at a local retailer, it seems like you can get a whole lotta guitar for half the price of a G Standard.

So my questions in some relative order:
How good are these (fit, finish, setup, stock pickups) ?
How does one navigate their range and what is the value for money sweet spot?
How do they compare to A) Big G, B) FGN?

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

They can be very good. The timbers and switching may not be Custom shop material, but very good instruments. Much better than Epi-. Some would say better than assembly line gibbys

 

[drf64]

In the words of Castpolymer, you will want to hug it and squeeze it and name it George.

 

[uriah1]

The original 1980 love rock guitar was.

 

[Danb541]

The original 1980 love rock guitar was.

Agreed. I don;t know about the newer ones.

OP, find your self a late 70's Ibanez model 2651 instead.

 

[Danb541]

 

[twangking]

All over the map. It's certainly a guitar that can be hard to try before you buy.

 

[nicknklv]

Here I'm asking mainly about the newer ones.

 

[richiek65]

MIJ Tokai should be Gibson quality at minimum

 

[41144]

twangking is right... Very difficult to pin down and, even worse, a great model here might be poorer or even better one in your country.
ie model names and numbers can mean little... Other than, for MiJ at least... The higher the number, pro rata, the higher the quality.
That said, and imo, regarding buying new.... Tokai MiJ put Gibson in the shade. At least 30% lower in price and easily worth a Gibson priced at twice, as much.
Woods, parts, finish are all exceptional although they do tend to cater only for chunkier necks. ie forget finding a 60s slim taper.
Plus, at the price - if you really feel the need to tinker with the pu's, you'll have the change to do so... Tho' you really don't need to!

 

[northernguitar]

MIJ Tokais are so freaking good, they get copied in Chinese factories. 'Fakais' are what they get called. The Toronto used market has a lot of these. I haven't looked for one, but it must suck to have to wade through the crap counterfeits.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

There are levels of newer MIJ stuff and it really is hit or miss. There was a new Tokai LS LP-style guitar I checked out last year that was basically and Epiphone with an ABR bridge....thick poly finish, multi-ply consruction, etc. Then there are the veneer topped ones. Then you have the solid top models with a lacquer finish that are comparable to Gibson in a way.

Do your research first.

I have a Crews Maniac Sound "Key to the Rock" SG that's a lower priced MIJ offering. Lacquer finish, well dried quality woods, one piece neck with full width tenon, ABR bridge with low neck angle, perfect nut & frets, it's only real drawback is a 3 piece body. And, it's an $800 or so guitar on the used market.



If I was buying an MIJ Les Paul today...I'd look first to see if there are deals with certain quality models many of which have the nibs. I'm talking about lacquer finished older Grecos, some Burnys, early 80's Tokai, early 90's OBG (Orville By Gibson). Then, I'd go to the Crews Maniac Sounds, Navigators, higher end Tokai's, go for lacquer finish with solid tops. Those super cheap Tokai's are just that.. cheap.

 

[Telecasterless]

Seeing @tele_paul 's gorgeous Tokai LS95 and @Catawompus' s killer LS136 really put Tokai on my radar. I'd heard about them but thought that it was only the older 80s and 90s guitars people were hunting.

Looking at a local retailer, it seems like you can get a whole lotta guitar for half the price of a G Standard.

So my questions in some relative order:
How good are these (fit, finish, setup, stock pickups) ?
How does one navigate their range and what is the value for money sweet spot?
How do they compare to A) Big G, B) FGN?

Youtuber and pretty genuinely good guy and player, James James, has one and he said it was as good or better than any of his LPs. Find his youtube page and see if you can find the one for his Tokai LP. I think it's had a lot of work done, but he seemed to rave about it's quality overall.

 

[8barlouie]

JMHO: I have played and/or owned numerous early 80s Tokais, Greco’s, Burny’s, Orville’s, and EDWARD’s. Back about 10 years ago, you could pick one up for about $600 and at that price, they were a steal. Now, they’re selling for high teens. No friggin way are they worth that. Most of them were very good guitars. A handful were exceptional. A few were piglets. But, I think it’s over as far as getting a good one at a decent price. For the kind of money people are getting for these now, I’ll stay with Gibson for just a little bit more to get the real deal.

I’ve owned several Gibson LP’s and played many more, and I can’t remember a single one that was as bad as all these trash-talkers say they all are.

 

[tele_paul]

twangking is right... Very difficult to pin down and, even worse, a great model here might be poorer or even better one in your country.
ie model names and numbers can mean little... Other than, for MiJ at least... The higher the number, pro rata, the higher the quality.
That said, and imo, regarding buying new.... Tokai MiJ put Gibson in the shade. At least 30% lower in price and easily worth a Gibson priced at twice, as much.
Woods, parts, finish are all exceptional although they do tend to cater only for chunkier necks. ie forget finding a 60s slim taper.
Plus, at the price - if you really feel the need to tinker with the pu's, you'll have the change to do so... Tho' you really don't need to!

I wouldn't necessarily say the higher the number (meaning, higher in price) the higher the quality for MIJ Tokai. My LS129 certainly isn't the highest priced model, but that's mostly because it's a plain top (which I prefer) and it's got a thin poly finish vs. Nitro. Quality wise it's top notch, so I'd say the higher the model number (again, price) the flashier and possibly more vintage accurate. Now, I'm not familiar with the MIC and MIK lines, so I couldn't say for those.

 

[ZackyDog]

I sold this one on Reverb. It was an excellent guitar, construction and finish-wise. My customer was happy with it too.


(image removed)

 

[deytookerjaabs]

If you're seriously nutty about little vintage Les Paul specs like long tenon and a screw-in ABR bridge then Gibson won't give you both those combined until you get a custom shop. And, it's a chore to find one under 9lbs outside the custom shop if weight matters to you.

Regardless of one's feelings on Gibson quality they still do that on Les Pauls specifically to make customers chase the highest priced Custom Shop models.

Meanwhile, you can get those features at good weights in the lowest priced MIJ guitars. Where they go cheap is with the finish, veneers, etc. Have to pay more for a good maple top with a lacquer coat. But, the deals are out there.

 

[Electric Warrior]

You might find this helpful in your search: https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/tokai-facts-theory-photos-id-thread.167940/

There are myriad variations. You have to be careful because sellers pass the low-end versions as rare or MIJ-quality with a price to match. They are fairly easy to spot, but obviously someone's buying.

I had a classic Tokai for a couple of years. It was a very nice guitar, made even nicer with a significant investment. It was well-broken-in, decades old. Had a deep sound and really shook in-hand. It definitely had a quality to it. With that said, I sold it for what I think was a fair price to fund an R8 and haven't looked back.

 

[tele_paul]

There are levels of newer MIJ stuff and it really is hit or miss. There was a new Tokai LS LP-style guitar I checked out last year that was basically and Epiphone with an ABR bridge....thick poly finish, multi-ply consruction, etc. Then there are the veneer topped ones. Then you have the solid top models with a lacquer finish that are comparable to Gibson in a way.

Do your research first.

I have a Crews Maniac Sound "Key to the Rock" SG that's a lower priced MIJ offering. Lacquer finish, well dried quality woods, one piece neck with full width tenon, ABR bridge with low neck angle, perfect nut & frets, it's only real drawback is a 3 piece body. And, it's an $800 or so guitar on the used market.



If I was buying an MIJ Les Paul today...I'd look first to see if there are deals with certain quality models many of which have the nibs. I'm talking about lacquer finished older Grecos, some Burnys, early 80's Tokai, early 90's OBG (Orville By Gibson). Then, I'd go to the Crews Maniac Sounds, Navigators, higher end Tokai's, go for lacquer finish with solid tops. Those super cheap Tokai's are just that.. cheap.

The main reasons Epiphones are inferior are not because of poly finishes or multi-ply construction, it's because their quality control tends to be crap (high frets, dead frets, sharp unfinished fret ends, sloppy routing, etc.) and their pickups are ****e. From what I've seen ALL MIJ Tokais are superior to Epiphone. And IMHO plain tops are far nicer than veneer topped anything (partly because I don't favor flame tops, period).

The inferior levels of Tokai you speak of seem to actually be MIC and MIK. You do know Tokai have factories in those countries too, right? Even though they are still better than Epiphone, they are not MIJ levels of quality.

This is a 2019 Tokai Love Rock LS129. No cheesy veneer, no Nitro, no fret nibs, but it looks pretty "solid top" to me. Looks like an Epiphone?

 

[Deeve]

Ref to vid at #6 above -
Absolutely Massive cabs on that Marshall - they looked odd to me at first as not deep enough, then I read them as 4x15 - as I'm not familiar w/ the fine points of the Marshall line, I didn't even know they did that.
Sheesh - and what a lovely tone-fest
Peace - Deeve