Tips for memorizing which chords in which keys?

[ryokan]

I'm deep into this right now, and feeling a bit frustrated. Any tips that worked for you in this task? Any online games that quiz you on this ?
Thanks in advance...

 

[octatonic]

In any major key the order is as follows:

Major 7
Minor 7
Minor 7
Major 7
Dominant 7
Minor 7
Minor 7 flat 5


Starting at any note you go up the following intervals:
Tone, Tone, Semitone, Tone, Tone, Tone. Semitone.

What bit is troubling you?

EDIT: Fixed the error from yesterday.

 

[tooncaster]

Another way of looking at it, keys relate to scale intervals. So in any key, the first, 4th and 5th intervals will be major chords; the 2nd, 3rd and 6th will be minor chords; and the 7th will be diminished.

So in the key of C: Cmajor, Dmin, Emin, Fmajor, Gmajor, Amin, Bdiminished.

 

[jjkrause84]

I totally do nto understand....at all.

Some one explain please!

 

[ryokan]

In any major key the order is as follows:

Major 7
Minor 7
Minor 7
Major 7
Minor 7
Dominant 7
Minor 7
Minor 7 flat 5


Starting at any note you go up the following intervals:
Tone, Tone, Semitone, Tone, Tone, Tone. Semitone.

What bit is troubling you?

I know the order of the chord qualities as you ascend the scale degrees, but what I am looking for is quick recall of a given chord as I'm playing. So, for example, knowing quickly what the ii chord is in the key of Ab, or what the vi chord is in the key of E, etc.

 

[brewwagon]

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http://www.theguitarsuite.com/Theory/Circle-of-5ths.html

 

[Chutist]

Another way of looking at it, keys relate to scale intervals. So in any key, the first, 4th and 5th intervals will be major chords; the 2nd, 3rd and 6th will be minor chords; and the 7th will be diminished.

So in the key of C: Cmajor, Dmin, Emin, Fmajor, Gmajor, Amin, Bdiminished.

WOW.

I just heard a loud CLICK in my head when I reat that!!!

Thank you.

I sort of understood many songs followed the 1,4,5 progression with "other" chords for "color". Now I know why...

 

[octatonic]

I know the order of the chord qualities as you ascend the scale degrees, but what I am looking for is quick recall of a given chord as I'm playing. So, for example, knowing quickly what the ii chord is in the key of Ab, or what the vi chord is in the key of E, etc.

Ok, I think I know what the issue is.
You need to work on APPLYING the chord formula to the major scale formula.
They are rather useless by themselves.

Pretty much everything you need is in my first post.

Using the two examples you give:

The ii chord in Ab would but a tone above Ab- so Bb.
The chord quality would be minor 7th.
So ii of Ab is Bbm7.
Do you see how I got there?

The vi of E would be a major 6th above (so C#).
The vi chord is also a minor 7th- so you have C#m7.

As far as an online quiz, no I don't know one but you can write your own.
Write all the keys on individual pieces of paper, like a deck of cards.
Then write ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii on a separate deck of 'cards'

Shuffle each and deal yourself one of each card.

Does this make sense?

 

[cacibi]

There are two sides of this - quick recall of note names/relationships and geographic location of related chords - which is to say fretboard locations and relationships.

I don't really think in terms of note names for the chord relationships when playing in unfamiliar keys, I think in terms of where the related chords are to the one I am playing.

So for example if I'm playing a root 6 Amaj barre chord at the 5th fret, I know the ii chord with the tonic in the bass is 2 frets up, the V7 chord with the tonic in the bass is 2 frets up and one string down...etc, etc. Knowing the names is great for talking about what you're playing, but knowing where the chords are is best for playing - regardless if you know the chord names.

Take your favorite major chord voicings/fingerings and run through the diatonic chords in that key - for each voicing, preferably for roots on each strings, 6 through 3.

Another good exercise is to take each voicing, and alter it for all the diatonic 7th chords, plus the the Maj6 and Diminished.

So take that same A Major barre chord, for example, and make it a Major 7, Major 6, Dominant 7, Minor 7, Minor 7b5, Diminished....and even Augmented if you're feeling ambitious. Do that for each inversion on each string.

 

[octatonic]

I totally do nto understand....at all.

Some one explain please!

We're relating the scale degrees of the major scale to the chords you would create off them staying in the scale.

For instance, in C Major you have the following notes:

C D E F G A B C

GIven a triad is a stack of notes going up in 3rds you get C E G.
THis is a major triad.
A 7th chords is the same chord with an additional 3rd above added in:

CEG and B.
This is a major 7th chord.

The next scale degree starts at D.
Going up in 3rds you get: DFAC which is a D minor7 chord.

And so on.

The formula for this is listed above.
When you think, for instance, of the iii chord of a particular key, lets say Bb you count up the major scale by 3 degrees:

Bb C D... ok. D is our chord.
What is the iii chord?
It is a minor 7 chord.
So the iii of Bb is Dmin7.

Cool?

Also, do you know about the circle of 5ths?
This will totally change your way of looking at keys.

 

[brewwagon]

image removed

 

[jbmando]

Starting in post 4 I did a "Theory 101" which might help.

 

[Jack S]

If I had to think about it every time, I would not be able to play very smoothly. I frankly do not care what key it is in, as long as I have the starting chord. I use relative positions to know where I need to go. If you can get very familiar with relative positions and develop your ear to recognize the intervals, then you can readily transpose keys from whatever starting point you choose.

 

[ddewerd]

I know the order of the chord qualities as you ascend the scale degrees, but what I am looking for is quick recall of a given chord as I'm playing. So, for example, knowing quickly what the ii chord is in the key of Ab, or what the vi chord is in the key of E, etc.

Don't know if this will help at all, but I visualize it via the lowest 3 strings, and a combination of knowing what notes are where, and the 1/4/5 major, 2/3/6 min, 7 dom.

Think of the key of A. Run an A major scale from low E, 5th fret. I can see where the 2 is, then the 3 on the A string, 4 and 5 are totally ingrained, and then 6 on A or D string, then 7 on D string. So combine that with the maj/min/dom and you're there.

Of course you can always start anywhere on the fret board and do the same thing (doesn't have to be E string). My current challenge is to take this approach more on the higher strings and apply to CAGED so I can get better at playing more movable shapes.

I'm a visual/pattern oriented kind of guy, and what I need to understand is the relationship between patterns. Once I understand that, it's just a matter (for me) of practicing it enough so I can do it in my sleep.

Another way I apply this is when I'm learning a new song. Instead of just writing down the chords, I'll do it with Nashville numbering and the progression pattern pops out at me. This also helps me in soloing over chord changes because I can visualize the chord changes against the sclaes/patterns I'm playing.

Like I said, this may be absolutely worthless to you. I envy the guys who really know this stuff inside out, but I ain't one of them. I'm just a long time casual player - the biggest problem I have with the TDPRI is that I keep learning how much I don't know, so the harder I work at it, the further behind I get

Cheers,
Doug

 

[ryokan]

Thanks all for your replies so far, very very helpful. My goal is to get to the place where I can grab a chord to fill out a single note melody line and know which chord to grab instantaneously. For instance, last night I learned Coltrane's Naima melody line by ear. Turns out it's in Ab, and I don't have quick recall of the chords that make up that key. Maybe it's time to create some flashcards...

 

[jjkrause84]

Also, do you know about the circle of 5ths?
This will totally change your way of looking at keys.

I know about it but have NO idea how to apply it.

 

[octatonic]

I know about it but have NO idea how to apply it.

I will respond tomorrow when I have more time to go into detail but it is really something best explained in person- perhaps over a hoppy beverage?

 

[klasaine]

Damn, I really need a beer but that L.A. / London commute will kill me.

 

[greggorypeccary]

In any major key the order is as follows:

Major 7
Minor 7
Minor 7
Major 7
Minor 7
Dominant 7
Minor 7
Minor 7 flat 5


Starting at any note you go up the following intervals:
Tone, Tone, Semitone, Tone, Tone, Tone. Semitone.

What bit is troubling you?

Why are these all 7ths?

 

[jbmando]

Why are these all 7ths?

4 note chords built with stacked thirds using scale tones.