Tips for looping.

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by Mjea80, May 8, 2021.

  1. Mjea80

    Mjea80 Tele-Meister

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    Yesterday I took my Boss RC-3 and Beat Buddy Mini off the board and put on a Boss RC-5 and a Boss SY-1 (Synth Pedal).

    Reason being, the RC-5 has a way better read out including metronome, a lot more options than the older RC-3 and also a very functional drum machine.

    My goal is to try to get better at this, to the point where I can hopefully build up full song composures complete with a bridge and outro. I do have an external switch so I could move around the memory bank mid song.

    So anyways, does anybody that has been doing this type of thing for awhile have any tips on how to make things go more seamlessly?

    Much appreciated.
     
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  2. Toadtele

    Toadtele Tele-Afflicted

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    Bump. No idea. But I’m interested.
     
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  3. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I have a Jamman Stereo that was the way I started developing full songs using looping. It is all about the timing of toggling. What I did was build the intro, verse, chorus, etc. and outro on separate loops. The Jamman has a simple aftermarket switch for toggling, but after many many years, I bought the optional three switch box. As I recall, Boss has this option as well. I now use the Trio+ that already has 5 parts of the song more easily accessible. Nevertheless, building songs and getting good at toggling back and forth was a very worthwhile endeavor. The main thing I will say is that looping takes practice just like guitar. It is a tool (not a simple pedal effect) that you get better at the more you use it. I spent lots of time watching a great local looping guy at gigs for my inspiration.
     
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  4. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Well, I found the Boss loopers difficult.
    But basically:
    - Each song has a sweet spot for loop start. You have to be very precise when starting your loop.
    -Some songs it's just on the 1. Other songs may have a better spot, or even an essential spot, to start the loop.

    -Chorus, Bridge and outro's etc: I find it hard to do too much (I dont pre-record backup tracks at home). What I do is loop such that I can get whatever portions (maybe 1 verse and a chorus?) and then solo over that by stop/play the loop.
    - I can solo over however much of that loop I want to solo over. A verse only and kill the loop? Or the verse and chorus?

    -When done with that, I have two options:
    ...structure the song so that the singing fits over the already established loop (verse and chorus in this case)
    .... or re start a new loop on a 2nd looper, (I have a kill switch for each looper) finish vocals while doing that and use this second loop for an outro.
    ....or after soloing go with no loop to finish all the vocals and end.
    ....or play chords at the end while looping for an outro.

    I find it impossible to double tap to stop a loop while singing and playing. Thus the kill switches. They just interrupt the output.
    Changing keys (modulating) in a loop song just makes thing more difficult.
    Bottom line is I often restructure a song to play while looping a gig. A normal song may have 2 verses /chorus/verse/chorus. I may restructure it to be 2 verses/chorus and just replay that over and over.

    The problem for playing out live is you can't really sit around and "build a song" ...BORING and unprofessional.
     
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  5. SRHmusic

    SRHmusic Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Ed Sheeran does the build up thing but sort of includes the audience in the process. I agree that's not great. I posted before about the best I've seen live (quoting my self):
    "I was at an event about ten years ago where an experienced guitarist played and sang harmony with another singer. They were playing jazz standards around Christmas, very low key while people milled around. At one point I realized I was hearing him solo and the rhythm was still going. I sort of ran over and saw he had a looper, and was making it all very natural, and not in every song. Most people didn't even notice anything odd.. A real eye opener. He was very solid. Turns out he had been a Nashville pro."
    The trick here was that he just recorded himself in the A or B section of a standard and launched straight into a solo 16 or 32 bars, then back into playing rhythm with the vocals again. Those types of tunes work well for this.
     
  6. dlew919

    dlew919 Doctor of Teleocity

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    the whole thing for looping is getting the timing right. It's brutally unforgiving. AFter you can seamlessly stop and start a loop, other things fall into place.
     
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  7. jaxjaxon

    jaxjaxon Tele-Meister

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    I use a Trio+ for what you are wanting to do. On each setting/slot there are 5 areas you can record loops on, and once you have the 5 loops recorded you can select which one plays and how many times it plays before it switches to the next loop you chose. then to another of the 5 loops and so on over and over if you want. Intro, melody, harmony, turn around, outro. Over dub any loop. count in for each loop. Drum and bass on a separate line.[​IMG]
     
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  8. Mjea80

    Mjea80 Tele-Meister

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    A lot of good tips here. Thank you!

    Jamman Stereo was the first looper I owned @Obsessed. I liked it so much that when the first one malfunctioned I bought another and it actually did the same thing, so I moved over to Boss with the external switch.

    I really liked the way you could toggle up and down in the memory and also the single click stop.

    The double click stop is my most hated thing about loopers as well. It doesnt sound that hard... but it just is haha. @schmee
     
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  9. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Holic

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    Hey man I’m just getting ready to go do some looping again right now.I’ve got the Jamman stereo the blue one with the four buttons and the NUX Loop core deluxe. I found one handy trick is to put the looper on auto record and not loop but single that way it will start when you hit your drum machine and it will end when you stop it, otherwise it will want to end on wherever it’s internal click track is counting it to. With the JM stereo and the SD card with 16 hours I just record the whole song sometimes. I’ll just play along to drum all the way through to the end I mean you can play at five minutes on three minute song whatever and then just start throwing parts on top of it, so I use it more like a two track recorder. I could also record boards the same way but not so long and say do maybe an intro vamp and then verse chorus verse chorus and I could stop there and then do if I wanted, save that and then move on to the empty track above or below it and carry on with the song .

    I do different things but sometimes ill use the internal drum machine from my little Hotone, for a basic beat and then add beat buddy on top of that maybe with percussion and bongos or whatever and by manipulating either one or the other on and off I get variance of the sounds besides the obvious fills, and other things at the BB does. I’ve also been kicking around the idea of using the loop core as a new drum machine instead of paying $200 for the drum add-ons of the BB, I’ve been thinking about taking a day and just going through a free drum sounds on YouTube or phone and computer or whatever and loading them onto the loop core and using that as a drum machine with way cooler beats then seem to come with the beat buddy. I sort of dug the Bbuddy at first but then I got pretty burnt out on it because the beats are pretty darn limited, I mean can someone tell me where there’s a good Texas shuffle beat in there? To get something like a freeway jam groove I actually went to country beats and change the drums to rock or jazz or something. When I saw hip-hop beats I thought they’d be cool like NWA or something but they’re just a little blip blip blip Doodley doo-pfft! I’ll see if I can link a SoundCloud song for some kind of example otherwise I’ll find out The link to my SoundCloud loops.

    https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/6EaRsFNrFaQeVSQeA

    This was recorded along time ago using GNX4 or whatever it’s called Digitech multi floor thing. I used that for drums and guitar and bass sounds, Into the Digitech stereo Jman. Is this maybe what you were getting at? using it as a recorder more so than just a looper?

    https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/Hnkcwri9K5NT5xRa8

    Here’s another example and this one drives home the point that you better be cool with wherever you mix the drums... just to set the record straight I wasn’t cool with this, but I liked the performance of the other instruments pretty much. For the most part I just print everything I don’t care mistakes whatever I let it all hang out. Ha!
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  10. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Holic

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    Just a little addition I added a Behringer Xenix 12fx mixer I got used for 60 bucks from Sam Ash and absolutely love it. I also got a Barringer Road composer or something pro XL stereo rack compressor, again used in the DJ department for less than $30 and again it’s a great unit I even use it on the television to knock down movies that are just over the top with the volume. I apologize if you get hit with any commercials or BS from SoundCloud I’m just starting to notice that they’re getting weird over there. I finally acquiesced and pay the 15 bucks to YouTube so they don’t interrupt songs right in the middle with a stinking commercial! Sure, a show ok, but interrupt a song in the middle of it? straight gutter trash barbarism. A special place in hell reserved!
     
  11. StratDal

    StratDal Tele-Afflicted

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    Thank you. I thought it was just me. Hitting the pedal to stop the loop is huge. More often than not, I miss it per my expectations.
     
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  12. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Holic

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    Hey I’m not even joking I think I’m going to sue as I’ve started to push twice on my regular pedals! I turn it off and then turn it back on again or vice versa ha ha
     
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  13. Digital Larry

    Digital Larry Friend of Leo's

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    I have both the SY-1 and the RC-5. I also use an FS-7 and reprogrammed one of the switch functions to be up/down. It works well in playback but you can't build up multi section things on the fly due to the need to save everything. which AFAIK can't be done with the foot switch.

    One thing I find challenging with looping as that a lot of times what I'm putting together has a pickup note, you know, prior to beat one. So inevitably this gets cut off and then I put it at the end of the loop, which doesn't always work either.

    I also use Ableton Live and in Session mode it is operating as a bank of loopers and has the same problem. I know it's not what you asked, but I use my loopers to capture ideas rather than build up full songs like you seem to want to do. I'm even tending to use Arrangement view in Live more frequently than the Session mode, and just put together things bit by bit over there. Sometimes I copy sections back to Session view to focus on some little section to add another part.

    So, I agree that putting together arrangements right in the looper can be a challenge. So much so that I stopped trying to do it! But for grabbing little ideas before they float away, it's still great.
     
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  14. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I agree he does a great job. However, If I went to a bar and had to watch that for every song... NOPE! It's fun to watch once or twice...
     
  15. Digital Larry

    Digital Larry Friend of Leo's

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    I think I'm pretty good at it now, but it took awhile to get used to it. Inevitably I am counting out loud or really focusing on it mentally or else my tendency is to hit it too soon since "I'm done".
     
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  16. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yeah, those pickup notes, or when an intro note/lead starts on the previous beat instead of #1. But I have been successful adding it later... IF I REMEMBER!
     
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  17. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Holic

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    Did you see where I was suggesting putting the looper on auto record then when you hit your drum machine it starts so you don’t have to sync up to an already running drum machine, as far as the loop core deluxe it will stop when it’s pushed but the jam man stereo has to be in single mode. If it’s in loop mode it will stop where it’s internal clock tempo is set, or just happens to be. That will lead you to believe that you screwed up trying to stop it along with the drum machine. So to record a whole song maybe three minutes or whatever long I would put the gym and stereo in single mode it’ll be blinking and then I will hit the drums starting to beat buddy which will kick the JM on I don’t have to be playing, But I do have to be keeping track of where the song is going and then I play along-versus choruses changes for solo whatever, All the way to the end then I stop. Now I’m free to change it over to loop if I want, and then I proceed with overdubs. Like a two track recorder that you’re just playing live in to. If there’s any place where I think I might make a mistake or anything the more important thing to do is keep track of the song if you do in fact have a set idea how it goes that way you can stop at in the right place. That’s not even 100% important the more important thing to do is not play any mistakes on the first pass through. Subsequent passes you can make all the mistakes you want then just erase that as long as you saved the first part! That can be an important piece of information. That might not even matter as much as long as you don’t hold the button down too long. When I was just starting I just did truncated versions, Cut down versions of songs until I was more comfortable. It’s not that big a deal I mean if you play live you got to play the damn song all the way through, so like in big band style the more important thing to do is not playing ham notes, more so than playing everything perfectly. But unlike big band with this, it comes around again and then you can fix it!
     
  18. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Looper manufacturers obviously dont use or understand. They just want to get as many functions on one switch or two they can to make money. If they'd play for a while they'd understand. A simple looper needs multi switches for "one push" functions to use live.
     
  19. Mjea80

    Mjea80 Tele-Meister

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    I have the RC5 with the FS6. One thing I find kind of annoying is that with my old RC3 I could program 1 button on the FS6 to be one touch stop and then the other button would be up and down in the memory bank. But with the RC5 I have to use one button for up and the other button for down.

    I wish I could somehow change that so I could have the one touch stop as well.. :/
     
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  20. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Not to mention if you want to stop and restart not only 2... but another tap also, AND it has to be perfectly on the beat!
     
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