Three f-Hole Options

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Deed_Poll, Aug 21, 2019.

Which f-Hole?

  1. Huge f-Hole

    23 vote(s)
    51.1%
  2. Traditional f-Hole

    15 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. Floating Ring Sound Hole

    7 vote(s)
    15.6%
  1. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    I'm currently having great difficulty designing an f-hole / sound hole for the Juniorbird that works with the proportions... I tried the huge one I designed for another guitar, but it's maybe looking a bit too eccentric! I'd appreciate your thoughts.

    The big f-hole with small pickguard

    Pros: Compositionally well balanced, Unique
    Cons: A bit too weird, Doesn't fit with the mid-late '60s aesthetic

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    A smaller f-hole with similar (slightly better) small pickguard

    Pros: Traditional, In keeping with the aesthetic
    Cons: negative space on the bass side to the left of the pickups, too straight looking

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And the wildcard idea, a ring supported from the back on a column and cut last (so that the grain on the top lines up) which keeps the original pickguard

    Pros: unique, allows me to use the original pickguard shape

    Cons: a bit weird and modern for this guitar?

    [​IMG]

    Sorry for the terrible photos of a PC screen and inconsistent angles, I originally took these to ask a friend his opinion but thought I might as well ask you fine folks as well.

    Here's the other one I made with the huge f-hole:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Thanks all!

    Dan
     
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  2. Matthias

    Matthias Friend of Leo's

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    That huge f-hole really makes the guitar... Such a cool design!
     
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  3. VintageSG

    VintageSG Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    The huge f-hole looks right and suits the guitar. The small f-hole doesn't.

    The circle looks like a power switch or a hotel toilet flush mechanism.
     
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  4. Piggy Stu

    Piggy Stu Friend of Leo's

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    On behalf of my English countryfellows can I register a childish giggle at the innuendo of 'f hole', as well as 'ring sound hole'
     
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  5. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    I thought there might have been pics of a 3 f hole guitar. That would be interesting and unusual to see. Google filters might have blocked it though.:)

    I'm partial to a medium size slender f hole.
     
  6. Steve Holt

    Steve Holt Tele-Afflicted

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    That huge f-hole is awesome!! One of the best I've ever seen. Had I seen that before I might have copied it on my jazzmaster. I like the traditional f-hole on thinline teles, but not on the jazzmaster. So I went with what I think most people call a cat's eye.

    20190712_210802.jpg
     
  7. ronkmd

    ronkmd TDPRI Member

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    The huge F-hole. Reminds me of Salvador Dali’s mustache.
     
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  8. Macrogats

    Macrogats Friend of Leo's

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    I’m sorry, but that huge f-hole just doesn’t do it for me. I’m more of a traditionalist, so the regular f-hole works imo. However, the floating ring idea is a cool one, and doesn’t look too bad. Can’t decide, so I won’t vote.
     
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  9. tubelectron

    tubelectron Tele-Holic

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    Hey @Deed_Poll !

    Unusual shape and very unusual pickup arrangement... But very cool, indeed. I dig it ! :cool::cool::cool:

    I voted for the big F in the 3-option choice. Is it what I would choose if it was my guitar ? Well... I don't know... o_O But I dig the shape, the pickguard, the use of Lipsticks, etc... :)

    I'm quite fan of the Cat's Eyes :

    [​IMG]

    Another possibility - quite unseen to my knowledge - would be a succession of round binded soundholes of increasing diameter. ;)

    By the way, wouldn't the long sound hole constitute a risk of weakening the top of the instrument ? :confused:
    Maybe it's a centerblock construction ? o_O

    I'd be even tempted to ask you the drawing of the body... :D:oops:

    -tbln
     
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  10. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Friend of Leo's

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    You asked for opinions, I'll give mine. I don't like any of them. I think f-holes look correct on arch tops and many of Gibson models - I think they look totally wrong on Fenders, including the thin line. If you feel you have to put something in a Fender looking guitar make it a fender f-hole, otherwise design you own guitar with your own hole.

    I'll crawl back under my rock.
     
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  11. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    Just going to throw out some ideas. (And maybe the bin is where they belong...)

    Your larger f-hole version works ok, looks fine on the already-built guitar. Seems to be your own take on the concept and having your own version is a good thing, IMO.

    lets talk about the "middle notch" first - the slanted part in the middle that resembles the line that defines a letter as an f. The middle notch in traditional f-holes points more or less at the bridge. Your design points elsewhere, but I think it works well in the already built because it works as an extension of the line of the lower bout, before curving back out to the upper bout. This isn't happening in the middle notch of your new design - just an observation. You would have to tilt the axis of the notch on your new design to make that happen.

    Also, in some classic designs, the middle notch on some f-holes is barely a line. More typically in guitars, mandolins, it's more of a parallelogram or a diamond - which is what I see more of in the first guitar; not so much in your new design.

    barely a line middle notch:
    APPLEFOTOSFEB2 098.JPG

    the parallelogram middle notch on archtop guitar:

    archtop.jpg

    so this my long way of saying, maybe fool around with the design of that middle notch. Or not.

    ps: I have no idea whether or not that part of the design is actually called a "middle notch", but that's all I could come up with in the few minutes I'm spewing this out. good luck with whatever you decide.
     
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  12. dougstrum

    dougstrum Tele-Holic

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    The large f hole looks very elegant.

    A friend's grandson who is interested in guitars could not help chuckling about a guitar with an f hole~he's about 10yrs old:rolleyes:
     
  13. teletimetx

    teletimetx Doctor of Teleocity

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    ok, one other thing - if you did start leaning towards the "ring" idea, maybe something that looked like the rings of Saturn:

    1920px-PIA17172_Saturn_eclipse_mosaic_bright_crop.jpg
     
  14. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    Thanks! I actually designed it for the guitar at the bottom of the original post, but it has similar proportions around that part so it works ok. I could probably fine tune it a little.

    Cheers! Yeah the circle was just a weird idea I had. Because the problem I was having was that the original pickguard extended too far down the bass side of the body and didn't leave a lot of room for the f-hole, so I was trying to think of something more compact that doesn't just look like a squashed "f"!

    Haha, it's not even the worst this week. I was explaining my jig used to cut the truss rod butt nut cavity XD

    I agree! Another problem I was having is that because it's quite narrow between the waist and the bridge pickup, the shape of the hole is kinda being tugged in two different directions by the proportions of the guitar. It's easy to draw a wonky looking one!

    That's sweet! Really suits the JM shape. Reminds me a bit of a Kauer Argonaut. I have a feeling Rickenbacker come down on people who use a cat's eye like a ton of bricks though?

    Another option is some variation on the narrow diamond from the Dave Grohl 335 (was it on a Barney Kessel signature or something from back in the day too?)

    All the better for twirling enigmatically

    Fair enough! I know what you mean. It doesn't grab so much of the limelight from the rest of the design, and there's already a lot going on with it. I voted traditional on your behalf, because it doesn't look like the light switch is winning over any fans! haha. Thanks for your thoughts

    Cheers!

    Yes I suppose that is the question... It's different if it's "what would I want on MY guitar" perhaps. I'm basically developing this model to launch into making guitars professionally, so a part of me has to look at it and ask what is going to sit right with the market.

    On the one hand, a love-it-or-hate-it approach makes a bit of sense, because at the price point you have to charge as a small builder, it's not going to be people who think it's just "ok" who put their money down for something like this.

    On the other hand, maybe someone is sold on the features already, it's already not a Les Paul or a Strat or what have you, and too much might put them off.

    In reality, I will probably make one or two of each to start and see how they go!

    As far as weakening the top, the other one I did was fully hollow and had no problems. I will leave several columns around the f-hole to make sure, and I'm going for half way between a semi-hollow and full hollow on these. Semi-semi-hollow XD

    Construction-wise I will approach it like this thinline Jazzmaster I did with forearm and tummy contours.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's how I can maintain the thickness around the edge of the f-hole even though it goes over the contour, by machining from the back.
     
  15. Jack Clayton

    Jack Clayton Tele-Meister

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    Have you considered an f-hole more in the same of a Novo Miris? That huge f-hole is a bit much for me personally.
     
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  16. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    On the contrary, it's a valid opinion and I'm very glad you shared it. I agree with a lot of what you say, and it's a really difficult balance to strike since the f-hole will always have a kind of renaissance look to it - and was very much an antiquated feature even on a lot of guitars we would think of as very old fashioned today.

    I agree, Fender didn't do a good job integrating the f-hole onto their models in the '60s and '70s. It always looked a bit twee, a bit too much forced-rustic. Like the "wildwood" Coronados or something, to my mind it evokes woodchip wallpaper, thick carpets in the bathroom and knotty pine cladding.

    The Fender f-hole design is a bit too straight for my liking, and I feel on certain models they were not sophisticated about altering the lines of their existing pickguard designs to accommodate it. Having said that, it's easy to fall into the same trap - and a lot of the primitive / kitsch nature of those designs do have a kind of nostalgic feel today that evokes the era.

    Like you said, on the thinline Jazzmaster with contours above, I used the Fender design. For its flaws, it is ubiquitous and therefore more invisible. I was also able to position it in such a way as to not visually interfere too badly with the pickguard, which helped as well. I find non-Fender f-holes don't look right on Fender style models. I guess the question is whether I consider this design a Fender-style model... I see it as being in between Gibson and Fender, really, hence the dilemma!

    For the record, both f-hole designs above are original designs of mine. The traditional one I designed for this offset waist archtop:

    [​IMG]

    Very interesting info, and I agree! I certainly need to adapt the middle notch to be pulling its weight on the context of this design. Considering there is such variety in them, it's amazing how a tiny adjustment can just instantly ruin an f-hole, I always think!

    I think that will only get worse over the coming years :)

    That would be pretty cool. It would also give some variation in line width, which is missing from the ring design as it stands :)
     
  17. nnieman

    nnieman Tele-Meister

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    @Deed_Poll I think your design calls for a cats eye!!

    Nathan
     
  18. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    That's the sort of thing I would end up with when I was trying to design one to work with the full size pickguard, but I feel the small loopy aesthetic is a bit antiquated. It works on those guitars though! They're a bit more '50s in their styling. Mine is more mid-late '60s. But I agree, the large f-hole design doesn't scream that era either, so I'm in a bit of a bind :)
     
  19. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    I don't know about a cat's eye, but a kind of scalloped diamond might work?

    Like this Gibson hole

    [​IMG]

    But more pointed, like this

    [​IMG]
     
  20. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    None of those.

    Put a tiny F hole near the knobs.
     
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