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This thing with tapping on multistringed extended range instruments

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by MatsEriksson, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. HoodieMcFoodie

    HoodieMcFoodie Telefied Ad Free Member

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    No and no.

    Saying Jared Dines is an Australian comedian is like saying Steve Terreberry is Nigerian Tuvan throat singer.
     
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  2. unixfish

    unixfish Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I dunno. Simon Fitzpatrick plays one really well (he is the bass player who tours with Carl Palmer).

    He is a friend of a friend - I've met him a couple times.

     
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  3. alnico357

    alnico357 Tele-Afflicted

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    I like melodies. The kind you can hum. A tune.
     
  4. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    But it is this what I am aiming for. I am looking for the "hendrix" or "from-another-planet" musician on these instruments. The stick has been around since early 70s, and has had an ever - of slowly - increasing numbers of practitioners on it. But yet, resort to conformity. It's like, "wow" now that they are presented with an instrument which gives them all options and really extended range of playing both bass and guitar, and even into mandolin range at the same time - i e the range of a grand piano - they still haven't been able to utilize the range of the instrument, given the options.

    When asked in interviews they go "it gives me the extended range I've sorely missed before" but yet when hearing them, they do not even spread out the notes like a good pianist does when utilizing a grand pianos whole range. They still resort to "tickety-tockety" arpeggios of the excercises kind of way. I still find that tapping, on a guitar even, gives limited dynamic range, as if the limited dynamic range of a guitar or bass wouldn't be poor enough already. When tapping, it seems like you're under-utilizing it anyway, because the notes decays very quickly, and it's just a "pop" or "tock" note.

    I saw a video in the 90s where they ended a show with an all star jam at the end. Granted, that those ones can be a mess, but Stanley Jordan was in it, and he didn't get heard at all, and started to try to pick his notes instead, and wasn't heard anyway due to his extreme low action on his guitar.

    Even Trey Gunn has told us in interviews about that he viewed his opinion about this to Warr guitars designer, Mark Warr, when starting out in the first place, that he wanted it playable like a pedal steel guitar on a stand flat out. But Mark Warr, stated that it's the posing thing that sells, no one wanted it to be played like a keyboard flat on the lap. So Trey (as in the video above) told us that he sees ergonomic disadvantages to holding it like a guitar slung around the neck. Which he has suffered too.

    Which gives me the reason (not unfounded) to believe that one of the limitations of the practicioners of these instruments, maybe lies in that they are holding it wrong in the first place? And that is what makes them limiting? I can very easily see that these instruments will provide an easier layout, and easier accuracy performed if laid down like a lap steel or a pedal steel guitar anyways. However, they still perform tapping, and to me, that is dynamically detrimental, and is what gives me the "kinda sounding all alike" vibe to me.

    Here's Frank Dunnerys DIY tapboard BTW:

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Lucius Paisley

    Lucius Paisley Tele-Holic

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    I think I can sum up your entire point with one quote from (where else?) The Simpsons.

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    WTF at 3:15 it's sooo out of tune even! Still "tickety-tockety" tapping and just modal playing, even 4ths 5ths/octaves only. I for one doesn't think you can get good high notes on a long string while tapping, the high notes dies off too soon, and just a pop, they don't sing, so to speak. The note/tone/timbre sounds too weak up there. Feeble. If it was as least as good as the low notes it will have had some merit.

    Modal arpeggio excercise workouts. Only.
     
  7. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    thank you, that was my intention. There's a reason why Jared went into this one, and not guitar synths or something else. Like a Spinal Tap on multi stringed instruments.

    By all means, people can have as many strings as they like on their instruments. I couldn't care less. But that it automatically should give them more versatility and options to express themselves as musicians MORE than with less strings I have yet to see/hear.

    Maybe this thread will rile some of them up, and go "I'll show that guy..." and up the ante. ;) Move the art forward? Eventually?
     
  8. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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    It seems like an exercise in creating an Instagram-able performance that gets a lot of views. If one gets a lot of views, they can attain the coveted title of "influencer" and make some money, maybe even significant money. It's not that much different than any other era of music except that the performance venue is online and can more easily reach a worldwide audience.

    I'm not a fan of musicianship as a competitive exercise or sport, which is where a lot of this goes, but a lot of people seem to like it.
     
  9. beanluc

    beanluc Tele-Holic

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    Reminds me of the joke:

    Q: “How do you tell a Harvard man?” A: “Don’t worry, he’ll tell you.” And probably within <30 seconds of meeting, too.
     
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  10. sk25

    sk25 Tele-Meister

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    This whole thread basically amounts to these two unspoken thought: "IT'S NOT A VINTAGE TELE IT SUCKS" "IT'S NOT THE MUSIC I GREW UP LISTENING TO IT SUCKS"

    I feel like these instruments would serve perfectly well in a full band with songs that have lyrics...the trouble is all the videos where people are soloing them. Definitely a lead instrument.
     
  11. loopfinding

    loopfinding Tele-Afflicted

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    well yeah, but in don cab it’s more like a texture, since most of the music doesn’t really have functional harmony anyway. but to be fair, he’s not doing the technique the whole time, just some tracks or some passages in tracks. same with the hella guy. but they’re just using an LP and a tele, respectively, nothing fancy set up to do the technique.

    But, I do I think it’s okay for these instruments to not make music with functional harmony. But I want to hear more like, six pianos by reich, not something that sounds like modal victor wooten. If those types of limited structures are your bag, then commit to the austerity of it in a way that’s more intentional.
     
  12. stinkey

    stinkey Tele-Afflicted

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    It seems more logical to play it lying flat since both hands do the same thing.
     
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  13. maxvintage

    maxvintage Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'm always impressed with tappers but never interested. As mentioned, it takes the thing the guitar is worst at--dynamic range--and makes it worse. Guitars, compared to wind instruments or bowed instruments, just have a very narrow dynamic range. Tapping reduces it to zero. I have the same problem with really gainy guitar playing--all compressed with no dynamic range.

    The only guy whose tapping I ever enjoyed was Victor Wooten, who really is from planet music, not from earth

    His version of Stevie Wonder's "Overjoyed" is great


     
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  14. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    '

    I've corrected my original post now, with admitting the gaffe, and said that Ormsby was the Australian luthier, Jared Dines is not australian. Mixed them up badly. Sorry, my bad, since Jesus died all's my fault. ;)
     
  15. beanluc

    beanluc Tele-Holic

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    Nnnoo, read it, there are plenty of legit criticisms here which do not boil down to taste.

    I grant that a lot of them do, but they aren't the only ones and you're either expressing a knee-jerk reaction yourself without reading, or, you're pretending things people wrote aren't valid, not sure which.
     
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  16. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    Yeah, and still, when slung around the neck, the two thumbs gets no work. 8 fingers only. Lying flat you can make ample use of ALL 10 fingers including thumbs. If you like.
     
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  17. Lucius Paisley

    Lucius Paisley Tele-Holic

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    Bollocks to the first one, and bollocks to "I feel like these instruments would serve perfectly well in a full band with songs that have lyrics".

    Clearly you've never been bored to deafness by DragonForce.
     
  18. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    Look it's basically about this, which bears resemblence, think of it yourself:

    1. in 1961 Hank Marvin plays a Stratocaster, clean sounds, maybe echo added, that kind of style.
    2. Within 6 years, Hendrix comes up, still with a Stratocaster, basically the same gear....

    ... and it's not even in the ballpark of Hank Marvin. And the subsequent plethora of different guitarists emerging. Still 40-50 years on in the Stick camp (and tapping multistringed instruments) no one has made the same difference on the same instrument as - for example - those two.
     
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  19. beanluc

    beanluc Tele-Holic

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    What I find hilarious about this video is how horrible his meter is.

    Never practiced with a metronome, did ya, Jimbo.
     
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  20. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Afflicted

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    This thread, should moreso be looked at a academically, theoretical view, concept wise, and the "urge" from someone to do tapping. Not emotional. The Stick hasn't caught on like the guitar did, thanks to George Harrison, Clapton, Hendrix et al, even Hank Marvin. The more strings, the more tapping on them, resorts to "more intellectuality" than "emotionally" music, interesting in a way, but either poser "I have more strings than you", showoffy wankery as has been already said. I just thought that we ought to have a hit record, a full song hitting the charts by now with Chapman Stick on as a solid lone instrument.

    And of course, I was interesting in what your thoughts was about it, and I am in no way trying to sway someones opinion either way. It doesn't work, and that has never been the intention.

    - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I can briefly compare this to once, myself, was dabbling with guitar synths. You know, hex pickups by Roland, connecting to MIDI, and be able to play all sounds from the guitar. But when listening to it afterwards, and not caring if it was made on guitar, left me with a "this is just a below mediocre keyboard player that is playing...meh...chords, pads, scales, and very little music". And eventually I figured out, since I play keyboards too, I could outplay whatever I played on guitar synth, on a keyboard anyway, and it sounded much better, and didn't mistrigger. It's sort of "you have to know which instrument it is made on, and it's way harder than regular guitar" or something like that. You have to have too much tacit knowledge and prerequisite to view multistringed+tapping instrument played music.

    This opinion I started to sense around 20 years ago, but didn't care, until recently that I started to thoroughly search around the YouTube and internet for really detecting if there was happening any progress in tapping and multistringed instruments. But it seems to have been stuck to shtick. What is that genre called anyway? Tickety-tock-rock ? [sorry, couldn't resist]. ;)
     
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