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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Ghostdriver, Jun 23, 2021.
Speaking of consumerism can I direct you to Veblen goods, and economy of enterprise?
Seems like you're doing pretty much the same thing here. Just on a different level.
Definition of what? There is nothing to define.
The OP said that someone he knows had bought a MiM that was condemned as an 'entry level' guitar by some other fool.
Two things put beginners off learning guitar - It's bloody hard work that demands time and patience and idiots who pour scorn on their choice of instrument.
An 'entry level guitar' is whatever you can afford, although if that's a CS 59 LP Reissue you might want to stop a minute before you flex the plastic
I respect the OP feeling galled here.
But the arrogant are never worth arguing with, thinking about, or even trying to correct.
If their own arrogance doesn't lead them into wake-up hurts and frustrations, then likely nothing will.
They hear "That's an arrogant thing to say" as "I'm so right and great that this dolt is just jealous of me." To a madman's fever, sanity is fuel.
It took me a few decades to get to this point. I grew up having to defend everything, argue every shred of space and iota of need. A tough habit to break. I still have to remind myself sometimes. But shrugging that phrase off as just bratty snarking is best, I think. If someone enjoys his/her guitar, that's all that really matters. Step around the self-enchained's flailings, and all that....
If I'd had a decent guitar in my early days, I might not have put it down for 25 years.
Uncalled for, perhaps, but you must be hanging around some pretty gentle corners of the internet if that really bothers you. You should probably stay away from sports discussion groups.
Isn't that a vintage 1962 Epiphone Sheraton made in the Gibson factory?
I try to buy guitars at a price point commensurate with my skill set and musical abilities. Unfortunately for me, they don't sell guitars at the Dollar Store.
Not at all, its just a phrase that irks me, i am from East London mate, I am used to gang warfare !
Well, I said, I wasn't very familiar with those guys, so I didn't know it was vintage. I see a guy playing an Epiphone and I automatically assume it's modern.
It depends on what you're comparing, where and when it was made and so forth.
For example, the cheap $54 acoustic I bought last year is a much better guitar than my first Sears catalog guitar purchased for about the same amount in 1970 (roughly $325 to $350 in today's dollars) or the $300 Epiphone acoustic I bought a few years later ($1800 in today's $$$). But, I'm confident that a new acoustic I paid $350 or $1000+ for today would be far better than the new $54.
The quality of lower priced guitars has massively improved over the past 25 years or so. While some of these improvements go across the price spectrum, the low to mid priced ones have seen the most improvement. The gap between the low and high end is much narrower than it's ever been.
The only thing I can say from my experiences with helping beginner guitar players that “puts them off” is the “bloody hard work” that you mentioned. I have never heard one single mention about people “scorning” their instruments. I doubt anyone here on this forum would agree that a MIM is an entry level guitar and so that is what has led this thread into trying to define what an entry level guitar is … or is not. A healthy discussion, because some entry level guitar players are on this forum and probably are gaining some good insight on this subject.
I gotta add this too....lol
Im not sure I agree entry level guitars are better now than years before ....I would say many are comparable .....50’s 60s Danos Harmonys etc are ok overall but do have some weak points.....like today’s entry level stuff
I do think it’s MUCH easier for consumers to research and buy good cheap entry level stuff
pre-net if your local music store didn’t carry it or your Sears catalog didn’t feature it you were outta luck
Now you can literally search the globe hop on a forum and get in hand descriptions
Apologies, misunderstanding. I don't know either but read he used a vintage and thought it interesting if he was playing modern ones as well. I know Epiphone have done quite a few reissues of their old guitars, such as the Coronet, which are very faithful to the originals.
I do agree it’s rude to bash beginners guitar purchases
There are plenty of times I suspect massive gushing about a cheap guitar on a guitar forum is a cover for trying to flip something however
I hate to upset your entire argument in three sentences, but…
Les Paul Junior guitars were introduced as cheap “entry level/student” guitars, and they’re now a standard/benchmark that many players use to gauge other instruments.
Yes, they were made in America in the 1950’s (and onward), but to say that (especially with the advances in manufacturing) the mid-level, reasonably priced Mexican-made Fender (which is what the OP was talking about) is entry-level/beginner, cheap or “lesser” is a cork-sniffery.
The only difference are cosmetic options appointments.
LPJs from that era have several well known issues not the least of which are the wrap around intonation issues. No one with credibility thinks of them as a “benchmark”. Lol
Specials and DCs with actual intonatable bridges set the standard for that market.
Do LPJs of that era often sound great if intonation is addressed ?? Yep
On to your MIM assertions:
Are stock MIM guitars “as good or better” than MIA guitars on the whole ?? No they are not. Not even close
Are they horrible ?? No
As one who got his first guitar in 1962 and his first electric in 1963, I doubt that you would find the guitars of that time to be comparable to so-called “entry-level” guitars made today.
We called those electrics ”egg slicers” for good reason. Strung with 13’s; baseball bat neck profiles; terrible quality pickups, switches, and control pots. No knowledge of how to improve it available, other than better players who DID own pro-level equipment telling you how to make your POS somewhat playable.
the MIM tele is the Honda Civic or F150 of guitars. When someone tells me they bought a new honda civic, I say, 'cool'! It will get them to work and to the store and home, it is a completely functional car and it will give many years of service.
It isn't fancy or elite, it is a working class car.
That is what telecasters are to me and why I love them. It is the work we do with them that gathers the kudos and Ooohs and aaaahs not the styling or horsepower and for the musician who needs a good, reliable tool, it is that.
People who are looking for other qualities may find the MIM wanting. That is fine for them.
Without knowing anything about the player, I would think that the thinline Epiphone being played is most likely to be a current “inspired by Gibson” model, just because of marketing product placement.