This phrase really irks me.......

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Ghostdriver, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,449
    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Location:
    In the South
    Speaking of consumerism can I direct you to Veblen goods, and economy of enterprise?
     
  2. Ebidis

    Ebidis Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    2,048
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Location:
    Alabama
    Seems like you're doing pretty much the same thing here. Just on a different level.
     
  3. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,449
    Joined:
    May 3, 2016
    Location:
    In the South
    Definition of what? There is nothing to define.

    The OP said that someone he knows had bought a MiM that was condemned as an 'entry level' guitar by some other fool.

    Two things put beginners off learning guitar - It's bloody hard work that demands time and patience and idiots who pour scorn on their choice of instrument.

    An 'entry level guitar' is whatever you can afford, although if that's a CS 59 LP Reissue you might want to stop a minute before you flex the plastic :)
     
    Fendereedo and beagle like this.
  4. RoscoeElegante

    RoscoeElegante Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,581
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2015
    Location:
    TooFarFromCanada
    I respect the OP feeling galled here.

    But the arrogant are never worth arguing with, thinking about, or even trying to correct.

    If their own arrogance doesn't lead them into wake-up hurts and frustrations, then likely nothing will.

    They hear "That's an arrogant thing to say" as "I'm so right and great that this dolt is just jealous of me." To a madman's fever, sanity is fuel.

    It took me a few decades to get to this point. I grew up having to defend everything, argue every shred of space and iota of need. A tough habit to break. I still have to remind myself sometimes. But shrugging that phrase off as just bratty snarking is best, I think. If someone enjoys his/her guitar, that's all that really matters. Step around the self-enchained's flailings, and all that....
     
  5. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,320
    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Location:
    Carolina
    If I'd had a decent guitar in my early days, I might not have put it down for 25 years.
     
  6. oldunc

    oldunc Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,006
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Location:
    California
    Uncalled for, perhaps, but you must be hanging around some pretty gentle corners of the internet if that really bothers you. You should probably stay away from sports discussion groups.
     
  7. KATT

    KATT Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    441
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Location:
    Essex, England
    Isn't that a vintage 1962 Epiphone Sheraton made in the Gibson factory?
     
  8. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    22,393
    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Location:
    Luddite Island, NY
    I try to buy guitars at a price point commensurate with my skill set and musical abilities. Unfortunately for me, they don't sell guitars at the Dollar Store.
     
  9. Ghostdriver

    Ghostdriver Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

    Age:
    58
    Posts:
    491
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Location:
    England
    Not at all, its just a phrase that irks me, i am from East London mate, I am used to gang warfare !
     
    Fendereedo and notmyusualuserid like this.
  10. Phrygian77

    Phrygian77 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    3,833
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2016
    Location:
    Crawfordville, FL
    Well, I said, I wasn't very familiar with those guys, so I didn't know it was vintage. I see a guy playing an Epiphone and I automatically assume it's modern.
     
  11. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,275
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Location:
    Near Athens GA USA
    It depends on what you're comparing, where and when it was made and so forth.

    For example, the cheap $54 acoustic I bought last year is a much better guitar than my first Sears catalog guitar purchased for about the same amount in 1970 (roughly $325 to $350 in today's dollars) or the $300 Epiphone acoustic I bought a few years later ($1800 in today's $$$). But, I'm confident that a new acoustic I paid $350 or $1000+ for today would be far better than the new $54.

    The quality of lower priced guitars has massively improved over the past 25 years or so. While some of these improvements go across the price spectrum, the low to mid priced ones have seen the most improvement. The gap between the low and high end is much narrower than it's ever been.
     
    aging_rocker and Fiesta Red like this.
  12. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    28,966
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Location:
    Montana
    The only thing I can say from my experiences with helping beginner guitar players that “puts them off” is the “bloody hard work” that you mentioned. I have never heard one single mention about people “scorning” their instruments. I doubt anyone here on this forum would agree that a MIM is an entry level guitar and so that is what has led this thread into trying to define what an entry level guitar is … or is not. A healthy discussion, because some entry level guitar players are on this forum and probably are gaining some good insight on this subject.
     
    notmyusualuserid and vhilts1 like this.
  13. vhilts1

    vhilts1 Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    776
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    PA
    I gotta add this too....lol

    Im not sure I agree entry level guitars are better now than years before ....I would say many are comparable .....50’s 60s Danos Harmonys etc are ok overall but do have some weak points.....like today’s entry level stuff

    I do think it’s MUCH easier for consumers to research and buy good cheap entry level stuff

    pre-net if your local music store didn’t carry it or your Sears catalog didn’t feature it you were outta luck


    Now you can literally search the globe hop on a forum and get in hand descriptions
     
  14. KATT

    KATT Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    441
    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Location:
    Essex, England
    Apologies, misunderstanding. I don't know either but read he used a vintage and thought it interesting if he was playing modern ones as well. I know Epiphone have done quite a few reissues of their old guitars, such as the Coronet, which are very faithful to the originals.
     
  15. vhilts1

    vhilts1 Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    776
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    PA
    I do agree it’s rude to bash beginners guitar purchases

    There are plenty of times I suspect massive gushing about a cheap guitar on a guitar forum is a cover for trying to flip something however
     
    Cyberi4n and Double Stop like this.
  16. Fiesta Red

    Fiesta Red Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,466
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2010
    Location:
    Texas
    I hate to upset your entire argument in three sentences, but…

    Les Paul Junior guitars were introduced as cheap “entry level/student” guitars, and they’re now a standard/benchmark that many players use to gauge other instruments.
    Yes, they were made in America in the 1950’s (and onward), but to say that (especially with the advances in manufacturing) the mid-level, reasonably priced Mexican-made Fender (which is what the OP was talking about) is entry-level/beginner, cheap or “lesser” is a cork-sniffery.
    The only difference are cosmetic options appointments.
     
    notmyusualuserid likes this.
  17. vhilts1

    vhilts1 Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    776
    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    Location:
    PA
    False

    LPJs from that era have several well known issues not the least of which are the wrap around intonation issues. No one with credibility thinks of them as a “benchmark”. Lol

    Specials and DCs with actual intonatable bridges set the standard for that market.

    Do LPJs of that era often sound great if intonation is addressed ?? Yep

    On to your MIM assertions:

    Are stock MIM guitars “as good or better” than MIA guitars on the whole ?? No they are not. Not even close

    Are they horrible ?? No
     
  18. Ronzo

    Ronzo Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    1,334
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    As one who got his first guitar in 1962 and his first electric in 1963, I doubt that you would find the guitars of that time to be comparable to so-called “entry-level” guitars made today.

    We called those electrics ”egg slicers” for good reason. Strung with 13’s; baseball bat neck profiles; terrible quality pickups, switches, and control pots. No knowledge of how to improve it available, other than better players who DID own pro-level equipment telling you how to make your POS somewhat playable.
     
  19. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    44,604
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Location:
    San Benito County, California
    the MIM tele is the Honda Civic or F150 of guitars. When someone tells me they bought a new honda civic, I say, 'cool'! It will get them to work and to the store and home, it is a completely functional car and it will give many years of service.

    It isn't fancy or elite, it is a working class car.

    That is what telecasters are to me and why I love them. It is the work we do with them that gathers the kudos and Ooohs and aaaahs not the styling or horsepower and for the musician who needs a good, reliable tool, it is that.

    People who are looking for other qualities may find the MIM wanting. That is fine for them.
     
  20. Ronzo

    Ronzo Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    69
    Posts:
    1,334
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2016
    Location:
    South Florida, USA
    Without knowing anything about the player, I would think that the thinline Epiphone being played is most likely to be a current “inspired by Gibson” model, just because of marketing product placement.
     
    Fendereedo likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.