This phrase really irks me.......

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Ghostdriver, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. Ghostdriver

    Ghostdriver Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    So, trawling a well know social media page for guitar freaks, I stumbled upon this thread about a guy who has just invested his hard earned wedge in a MIM Telecaster.

    he was clearly chuffed with his new purchase, and he had a few folks congratulating him and then this complete Asshat arrives with his comment, which was along the lines of ‘why you buy that, it’s an entry level guitar?’

    Now, we all know that these chat room, forums etc, even on here, you can get snipey comments, but what irked me was this term ‘Entry level guitar’.

    I dunno why but when I read this phrase it really grinds my wheels......wtf is an entry level guitar anyway, any guitar sub 300 quid? Is it that people deem a cheap guitar suitable for starting to learn on?

    Despite this, it also pissed me off that a MIM Fender would be classed as this, not that I own one, but I have in the past and I always saw them as a mid range but fairly decent axe.

    I guess he won, and stoked my fire enough to bite.....ha ha!
     
  2. Cesspit

    Cesspit Tele-Holic

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    I have to agree. We know how hard learning to play can be so it makes sense to buy a cheaper guitar as your first, just in case. But we also know of old, cheap usually meant bad quality and difficult to play which is no recipe for learning on. Today, it is difficult to buy a really bad guitar (unless you are really unlucky) and I've seen pros playing lower end priced guitars which makes the term 'entry level' a complete nonsense.

    MIM guitars are good guitars, full stop so the guy firing off that comment is clearly a prat.
     
  3. Weazel

    Weazel Tele-Holic

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    In my opinion, an entry level guitar should be of the best quality possible. It's my logical take on it.
    And nowadays that quality can be had for less money than ever.

    Entry level = bad guitar makes no sense to me.
     
  4. richiek65

    richiek65 Friend of Leo's

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    My MIM Strat would take any entry level player to Carnegie Hall (with practice of course, and I'm not even close yet)
    No need for a beginner to learn on a rubbish instrument, and a MIM strat/tele/whatever ain't no rubbish instrument
     
  5. loudboy

    loudboy Tele-Meister

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    It used to mean unplayable junk like Harmony, Silvertone and Teisco - it's amazing any of us boomers could learn to play at all.

    Now, you can find stuff in the $100-150 range that does about anything a more expensive instrument can do, at least for a beginner. Play decent, sound pretty good, not break.

    A guy brought an Indonesian Tele in for a session - he'd paid $99 for it, new. You know what? It sounded just like a Tele on the track. Did it sound like a good vintage '50s Tele? No, but it inhabited the same sonic territory.
     
  6. vhilts1

    vhilts1 Tele-Holic

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    It is kinda puzzling to watch guys gush over cheaply made entry level guitars and in fact have several

    The big picture trend is almost always to get the masses to accept lesser quality and buy more of it

    I was talking to a guy last night who had MANY people telling him what GREAT guitars Tokai’s were in response to him saying a Gibson gold top was pretty pricey for him

    I said I’ve played many Tokais and other overseas made guitar many people hype and although they were cheaper most were decidedly below typical pro quality instruments on at least some level although their were a few that had some quality I liked

    Im always suspicious of overhyped cheap guitars and often get the feeling their owners/fans are attempting to convince themselves out of buyers remorse or more nefariously trying to perpetually inflate a market for low end guitars they truthfully wanna unload

    I own an stock Affinity I bought and had delivered from Craigslist for $80. I’ve given 1000s of lessons with it. In that regard it’s been a very profitable guitar.



    I’d be could play almost any gig with it professionally (although it would be far from my 1st choice for most gigs) but I’d never tell anyone it’s as good or better than guitars farther up the totem pole or in some cases much higher on the totem pole. It’s not

    It is an ok guitar for it’s cost. Not great but ok. Pretty much the entire guitar in every manner has limitations better guitars don’t but the fact is if it tunes up and intonates well and plays comfortably those limitations can be somewhat compensated for or ignored in an all I care about is if it intonates and plays easily myopic view.

    I would never “collect” or hype an Affinity. Lol. Or many other low end guitars. Lol.


    But in fairness I gotta end with this. Almost all crazy priced vintage guitars that are outta reach for almost all players were at some point priced used very cheaply as guitars or amps no one really was hot for at the time. There was a time in the 60s/70s/80s tweed era gear was just old junk no one wanted. Lol.

    Additionally I’d pay a decent chunk of change for original Dano gear right now. Lol. Damn few instruments ever made were more low end entry level than original Dano gear. Supro as well. And Harmony/Airline/etc etc

    So I guess it’s what I suspect as less than honest motivations for low end gear hype I dislike more than the gear itself sometimes

    In the end it’s always do your own thing and buyer beware
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
  7. hemingway

    hemingway Poster Extraordinaire

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    One thing I love about THIS forum is that that kind of snobbery and sniping is almost non-existent.

    How many million people have to say it: it's not about the guitar. If you think it is, then you're probably not very good.

    My favourite player at the moment is a G&L tribute I got in a clearance sale, with some Bootstrap P90s in it. It's an entry level beauty that I'd proudly play on any stage.
     
  8. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    This forum is full of guys that will tell you a CV Squier is just as good as anything else. I've seen them played expertly.

    The again if someone buys a Custom Shop for their first axe and can't play, they get laughed at too as a posuer. I've seen this too.

    The internet is full of knobs. (Did I use that word right?). :)
     
  9. Grandy

    Grandy Tele-Holic

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    I think the hype about inexpensive guitars is people being surprised about how good they can be. It was more likely in the past that cheap guitars were junk. And ten times more expensive usually isn't ten times better.

    When I was younger I bought the most expensive guitar I could afford. I was really buying the brand name and the assumed quality it was associated with. Now that I'm a little better player and know a little more about guitars I can afford to buy cheaper guitars because I know what I'm actually buying. And I can have two slightly different telecasters insted of one more expensive.

    When you are buying vintage or high end custom instruments you also paying for the mojo. Not that they aren't good guitars, but I don't believe in mojo.
     
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  10. Fretting out

    Fretting out Poster Extraordinaire

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    Some people are unable to acknowledge that anything other than custom shop exists...

    My favorite may be a MIA A.O but that doesn’t mean if someone likes a different model or can’t afford the most expensive doesn’t mean that their choice has to be belittled

    Except those chibsons! Get off my lawn!
     
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  11. Mark617

    Mark617 Tele-Meister

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    When all is said and done
    It’s Not the arrow
    It’s the Indian
     
  12. richiek65

    richiek65 Friend of Leo's

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    I've got everything from Artist to Squier to MiM to Gibson. None are not worth taking to a gig and getting righteous tones from, and they all play great, just some play better than others
     
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  13. Fretting out

    Fretting out Poster Extraordinaire

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    Edit [blank]
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2021
  14. Sparky2

    Sparky2 Friend of Leo's

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    In my opinion, these are entry level guitars (or student guitars):

    Mitchell
    Squier (except for Classic Vibe)
    Rogue
    Glarry
    First Act
    Indio by Monoprice
    Epiphones that cost less than $200
    Starcaster by Fender
    Ibanez GIO models
    and, just about any guitar that is sold in a "guitar pack" with a strap, cable, pick, and a small amplifier.


    I consider MIM Fenders to be the performing musician's gigging guitars.
    The workhorse go-to guitars that get carried to every job week after week.

    If some cork-sniffer is unimpressed with a Fender not made in Corona, California, then I automatically ignore him.

    ;)
     
  15. Dr Improbable

    Dr Improbable Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Of course I play "student" instruments. I'll never stop being a student. The more I learn the less I realize I know.

    Only a poor carpenter blames his tools...
     
  16. vhilts1

    vhilts1 Tele-Holic

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    I dislike MIM guitars for a few reasons

    1st and foremost they are HEAVY. That’s pretty much a no go for me with almost any guitar unless it has some special exceptional thing it does.

    The finish is almost always real thick.

    I don’t think they do anything exceptional. Just kinda.... here’s a Telecaster.....

    They are almost always a little “off” somewhere.....like everything is acceptable on a basic Telecaster level except ....it needs a new nut.....or hey this bridge PUP sounds great but the neck PUP is completely blah

    And again.... the idea that they are ....as good or better than MIA stuff just isn’t true
     
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  17. Alamo

    Alamo Doctor of Teleocity

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    Ouch! Watch it!
    that was my knee
     
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  18. ping-ping-clicka

    ping-ping-clicka Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    pick it up and spank the plank can the prestige politics.
    Lets have some fun.

    national duolian.jpg
     
  19. naveed211

    naveed211 Friend of Leo's

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    Just came here to say the guy should’ve gotten a CV.

    But yeah, “entry level guitar” seems to have a negative connotation to it that just doesn’t hold the same weight as it once did. Cheap guitars when I started playing were just that. Nowadays, if you’re spending like $200 and you get the thing setup, you should have a good guitar, period.
     
  20. alnicopu

    alnicopu Friend of Leo's

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    Glad to see this thread. Sad to say how many people get hung up on this topic. With music gear or anything for that matter. I had a music store guy steer me away from a tweed deluxe back in the 70’s. It was in the back on the bottom shelf for less than 100.00. I also returned an Am. Std Strat because it wasnt 800.00 better at all than my mim Strat at the time. My pickup swap made it so close, and the build quality was just about as good. Tight neck pocket, intonated and stayed in tune for days but at the time i just HAD to have one with an American serial number. I was gonna spend a bonus I got on a nice acoustic. Played a Taylor that sounded great but found a Breedlove that sounded very close just not quite as “big”. The Taylor was 3500,00. I got the Breedlove for 300.00. No way, no how there was a 3200.00 difference in the 2. Sure it isnt as pretty and shiney but, a little older, a little wiser, see that it was the better purchase. I convinced myself I wanted a Martin and the one I tried sounded like mud. Nothing inspiring about it at all. At 60 y/o, I dont look at badges on anything anymore. If it sounds good or drives good, I buy it. I’m too old to try and impress anyone with the superficial. If anyone saw Clapton playing an Affinity, they would be 1000.00. Thats how marketing works.
     
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