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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by noah330, Jul 8, 2019.
It's especially difficult when taken out of context.
Guitar is so mainstream these days that you pretty much have to expect all this stuff. With a million choices/options comes folks who will nitpick every single thing they possibly can because they can..... but there are still tons who don't.
how is your hand going to make it sound like an octave down fuzz pedal through heavy modulation?
i went out and got a boss bf-2 because i wanted that robert smith sound, and i got it. i wanted that rowland s. howard sound so i figured out what he was using, and i got a good approximation, and now i can get close enough to both of those sounds to use them to make something that's my own.
if you like the look of a certain movie, figure out what film stock was used, and what lens, and try to sort out how the lighting was done.
if you like a certain album, figure out what they were using.
if you like a certain beer, grab a bunch of clone recipes and start tasting grains and smelling hops.
you need to put yourself in there too, or you're just copying, but willful ignorance about the tools to do the job you are doing is stupid and a form of self sabotage.
We can go back and forth as much as you want. if you choose to quote expect a reply and if you don't like it pull up your panties and live with it. You are free to follow whatever path you want just as I am and others too. I think the OP was about guitars. But still - you can hunt for the "secret" or "magic" piece of equipment but its not gonna help you because there is no secret sauce. Its still in the hand.
yeah, but the hand alone isn't going to make it sound like a phaser.
style is in the hand, and it's important. but getting the right sound is also part of the artistry.
where would ansel addams be without the zone system? he literally started monkeying with exposure and development time to get the results he wanted.
Yeah, I watched that video last week even though I usually don't watch the videos in that channel. I'm not a Gibson guy but I was curious about the Plek part.
Anyway, pretty sure "that guy" isn't just some rando who won a guitar, he's a regular on a popular guitar channel and he has lots of other Gibson guitars. The point of the video was to find out if Gibson's QC is quantitatively better now or if it's just PR.
I blame that effect on three things:
#1: The Internet. Before the Internet, guitar players really didn't know much about the differences between guitars, especially from the same manufacturer. I'm old enough to remember this period well. When I got started, I didn't even know there were Japanese-made Fenders that you could get for less an American-made Fender. Now with IRC and BBSs, and later YouTube, eBay, and Reverb, StewMac, etc., people know a lot more about the instruments themselves, wood quality, hardware, and QC issues. Back in the '80s it was more like the common man on the street might know the difference between a Strat and a Gibson. It was only pro players that had "insider" knowledge of specialized topics such as fingerboard radius differences, fret sizes, tuner ratios, pickup windings, and special finishes.
#2: The guitar, amp, and effects manufacturers themselves. There's more of them now than ever before, and they're all fighting like mad for the same dwindling slice of the guitar player market. Also, all the quality manufacturers have detailed spec sheets and offer many more variations on similar instruments. There are more consumer options than ever before. Both Fender and Gibson have outsourced their low-end guitars to developing world countries, and have guitars in their lines at every price point.
#3. Nostalgia and the vintage craze. Baby boomers and even Gen X folks now have the disposable income to indulge their idealized memories of the old days. So now you have forums devoted to instruments that were better left in the past. Things like fiberglass guitars, Silvertones, Sears guitars (like the Harmony) all have active fan clubs now.
And Brian May and his dad made his own damn guitar because he couldn't afford to buy one of the big names …. and his guitar has become iconic and the basis of a pretty damned solid career, as well as full of tone. He's a good enough live player, but his studio work (through headphones especially) is absolutely astonishing to me. Love Dr Bri
I've always been pretty amazed that this particular guitar has lasted as long as it has, being that it was his primary gigging/recording guitar for decades.
Figure out what they were using.
So let’s say you want to sound like one of your guitar heroes.
Perhaps you liked Jeff Beck’s tone in 1993’s Crazy Legs album. For that record, he used three amps- a Fender Tremolux and a Fender Bassman in parallel, in a dry wood-paneled room, with two microphones on each amp, a Shure SM-57 dynamic mic and a Neumann U47 tube mic. At the same time he also ran his guitar through a Fender Concert 2×12” amp, laid on its back in a stone room and pointing upwards, with a mic on the ceiling. The output from the Concert amp was also fed into the speakers of a Fender Twin, which was in an echo chamber. You probably can’t get that tone in your local club, or in your garage.
Maybe you liked Stevie Ray Vaughan’s tone on In Step. He had thirty-something amps in the studio for that one, including a ’59 Bassman, a Dumble Steel String Singer, and a couple of 200W Marshall stacks.
The iconic hit song Layla, featuring both Eric Clapton and Duane Allman on electric guitar, also featured small amps, but with a twist. Using a 16-track tape recorder, six of those tracks were used for the guitars alone in the first section of the song, with five guitar tracks in the second section. The famous intro and lead sections of Layla used track 3 for Clapton and Allman solo duplication, track 4 for Allman’s solo, track 5 for Clapton’s rhythm part, track 9, 11 & 12 for Clapton’s harmony parts. Clapton played lead guitar on one track, and harmonized with his guitar lead on three other tracks. Now you know why you can’t sound like Derek and The Dominos on Layla when you play at your local club.
Or, just get a good guitar, a good amp, maybe a few pedals, and sound like yourself.
We ( guitarist's ) are a full spectrum of individuals that range from gear heads, collection freaks, closet players, rock stars and virtuoso talented players of all types of music, and everything in between. Embrace the total community and enjoy the ride.
As a friend of mine used to say, "if ya got'em, smoke' em.". Applies to everything.
Don't you agree? Don't sweat the small stuff, watch the video if you are seeking techie info. Electric guitarist have been technically inclined like this since day one, example: Leo Fender - counter point - Les Paul & Mary Kaye and there's Joe Bonamassa ( in his own stratosphere ) . It's all good and it's all fun.
I think I get your point. All this other stuff distracts from the simple joy of playing. If you think back to when you were a kid, and got your first guitar, or played in your first band. The absolute undiluted thrill of it, just complete enjoyment. You didn't care about the fine nuances of tone, or some slight imperceptible imperfection on your instrument. You had an electric guitar! (any guitar!) You were playing rock music! There was no self-doubt, no second-guessing, no need to scan chat rooms to see if you were doing it right. You just played. What could be better?
i definitely sound like myself. however, i'm interested in adding colors and textures to what i can do. that's like having charcoals, colored pencils, watercolors, oil paints, and stencils and spray paints at your disposal.
the birthday party is one of my all time favorite bands. their guitar player only used the same smallish rig for his entire career, both in that band and after. fender jaguar, twin reverb, distortion +, mxr blue box, and an mxr ten band eq with everything dimed as a boost.
my pedal chain is longer than that, but it starts with a blue box into a distortion +, and it ends in a clean boost, and i'm playing into a musicman amp. there's a really cool blue box into distortion + trick that i learned about by doing some research, and it makes the blue box infinitely more usable than it is by itself. so i stole that trick and i use it all the time.
i'm not interested in sounding exactly like rowland s. howard, but i can get a similar vibe, and i can do a reasonable imitation of his phrasing, and it's another option for the music i can make that i wouldn't have been able to without doing some specific gear research.
also, if this comes up in search, a little bit of vibrato/trem pedal in a lot of gain is subtle but important to getting that sound.
i love the cure, and a big part of getting that sound is figuring out how they got it. robert smith isn't going to sound like that playing something with active pickups into a 5150 with no pedals. he'll still have his style, but it's going to sound completely different. a huge part of the cure sound is layers and layers of modulation, some of them pretty subtle. is just having the gear going to make you sound like them? no, absolutely not, but you're also going to have a hard time getting that vibe without the appropriate gear. and knowing that robert smith will almost always set every control to noon is a good clue for dialing that in.
i'm in a death rock band, and a huge part of getting the sound right is dirt going into modulation. you're not going to get that christian death vibe without it.
you're not going to both get a nice single coil jangle and a roaring deep distortion sound out of the same guitar without some serious pedalboard magic going on.
you want that chameleons swamp thing vibe, you're going to have a rough time doing that without a delay pedal.
if you wanna shoegaze, you're going to have a hard time with just a stock tele into a fender champ.
yeah, make the best of what you have. if you're on vacation and all you have is what the house you're staying at has in the living room, play it and enjoy it and don't gripe about leaving your pedalboard at home.
but making the best of what you have literally means making the best of what you have. and if that means modifying your gear or figuring out what kind of amp or pedal or playing technique will get you that thing you're hearing in your head, go for it. not doing that is like wondering why you can't catch up to a motorcycle on a bicycle.
maybe for people that just play classic rock and electric blues none of this matters, but those extra colors and textures are a huge part of my music, a huge part of how i write, and a huge part of my band. and not exploring that and figuring out how to get the right sound would be me selling myself short.
split your signal, put some of it through a very slight slapback to sound like a doubled guitar part, and run the rest through a harmonist pedal. or split several more times and build it up more. maybe get a looper involved, or record the other parts into a sampler. maybe split it up to more than one amp with different voicings.
also i'm never going to want to sound like either of those guitarists.
finally getting that sound in your head and letting it rip is the exact same feeling. when everything is going right, playing electric guitar makes you feel like you're ten feet tall or like you can almost levitate.
Yer so wrong. Only pure toanz do that. Pure means guitar -chord - amp, brah. Or was that guitar, soundhole and soundbox, no cable or amp? I forget, is a pick ok?
It still takes the average player at least few thousand hours to get good. I imagine somebody can go online and become an "expert" on a given piece of gear in an evening or two.
Guitar was such a mystery when I started. There were no tabs and the song-books were piano music, usually in the wrong key. You mostly learned by studying records or from other players who were farther along. The local band scene was crazy competitive but there was still a sense that we were all one tribe.
Those days are gone forever. I've bought into my share of hype and fads over the years and still enjoy the company of other players but, if I was a kid today, I'm not sure playing guitar would have the same appeal.
or we could just bang two rocks together and yell.
Only posers need TWO.