This is what depresses me about guitars these days

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by noah330, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. marcflores

    marcflores Tele-Meister

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    Sounds like a Rhett Schull video that OP is talking about. You're missing the point.

    The point isn't that your everyday guitarist is doing this. He did it to make a video, to get views, to gain more subscribers, and to put food on the table.

    The whole point of the video is to inform and entertain. Hey, guitars don't come from the factory in the most perfect shape. Can they be played and sound great? Of course. Hey, this is what the measurements and tolerances can look like out of the factory. Kind of a cool machine that can see this, right? Has a few millimeters ever stopped Jimi Hendrix or SRV from kicking ass on guitar? Of course not.

    I'm 38 years old. When I was a teen and in my 20s, I rode a motorcycle every single day, rain or shine. I was really into motorcycle tech, and modding or adjusting bikes to perform better on the track or on the street. All the old farts on the forum would sit around and say, "What's the point of all that? Just get out there and ride your bike. Enjoy the open road and feel the wind on your face."

    While I get the point, sometimes I just wanna say F*CK YOU, OLD MAN! Part of the enjoyment is understanding how and why things work. Part of the excitement is knowing it's within your control to change the experience. I want to know that the motor I'm throwing around the mountains was checked and maintained by me, and that every fluid and bolt and screw is as it should be because I did all that work myself.

    I figured my attitude toward this would change as I got a little bit older. Maybe I have a long way to go. But even now, it seems lame to me when dudes say "Just plug it in and play it." Maybe some people enjoy tweaking, modding, etc. more than you do? I mean, this entire forum is filled with people building and tweaking amps, hobbling together partscasters, etc.

    Why buy a $5,000 automatic watch when a $50 Timex will do? Why buy a $3,000 Les Paul when a $300 Epiphone will do? We don't want to just look at the time or strum some chords. Some of us appreciate heritage, engineering, the ability to tweak and modify, etc. Live and let live.
     
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  2. TwangerWannabe

    TwangerWannabe Tele-Meister

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    People spend more time watching Youtube videos, "researching" and "chasing tone", and in the end many of them can't even play, putting the proverbial cart before the horse. Priorities are all mixed up. I bet that many wouldn't be "players" at all if there wasn't the internet. The sad shame is given the resources we have at our fingertips to get better and learn and improve, you'd think there'd be more that would use that to their advantage and become better players. Instead they use it to watch videos about pedals, argue about finishes that "breathe", dispute over "tone woods" and have more gear than they know what to do with and are more into posting NGD's than actually playing. I think the acquisition and chatting about guitars is more of a hobby and takes up more of their time than actual playing does.
     
  3. Sean Mac

    Sean Mac Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    The guitar in the video is not simply a musical instrument, I think.

    It seems to also fulfill the definition of "conspicuous consumption" Thorstein Veblen wrote about.

    Much of it's price is based in it's perceived status.

    A subjective, intangible and perhaps imaginary Quality in psychological terms.

    Gibson has the history and recognition to make this work in the minds of it's customers.

    It doesn't seem to me to be unfair to measure it objectively using a machine.

    :)
     
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  4. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Friend of Leo's

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    When you want to portray the image of a successful Silicon Valley venture capital partner or a Wall Street stock broker, a $25k custom shop guitar looks very nice hanging in a glass case next to your photos of your Fiji yacht cruise.
     
  5. TwangerWannabe

    TwangerWannabe Tele-Meister

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    I've only read a couple of the replies here. Yes, it's a bit lame (and sad) that the guy the OP is talking about in the video decided to just find things wrong with the guitar and go over it with a fine-toothed comb and essentially nit-pick the guitar. It's always been interesting how there are many who will scream and wail and complain about a scratch on their new guitar that must have been put there by the eyelash of a factory worker, then rant on about how they insist on things being don't the old fashioned way and done by hand, and scoff at CNC machines, etc. You can scrutinize any guitar and eventually find something "wrong" with it, just like in medicine, if you probe deep enough and keep running tests and what not, you're eventually going to find something wrong.

    The guys that go on and on about the things that are pretty insignificant are just out of touch and want something that looks nice and they can show off to friends, but wouldn't be caught dead taking it to a gig (that is, if they even gig) or even to a buddy's house to jam for fear of bumping it into something or getting a ding.

    These things are meant to be played, not handles and googled like a Faberge egg, people!

    But with that said, there also seems to be a segment of people who hear the word "PLEK" and seems to set them off and they'll just reply with negative comments. The latest PLEK machines do many other things, but for this thread let's just say that what a PLEK machine does is the same as what a fret level, crown and polish done by hand is. It's just a a machine programmed by an operator, then the PLEK carries out the fret leveling. It's the same thing as what someone would do by hand, people, so those of you who seem to trash the PLEK machine but have no issue with a fret level done by hand, it's the same darn thing in the end. You don't have to like the PLEK process and can say it's overkill, too expensive, etc., but just know what the machine does (and doesn't do) before you trash it.

    I've had fret level, crown and polishes done by hand and done by a PLEK, and both have yielded excellent results. Neither is right or wrong. Pretty much every guitar or bass I've had PLEK'd had come out the other side absolutely perfect. Before they had some high spots on the the upper frets, some older acoustics with a "ramp" higher up the neck, and the PLEK analyzed the neck and determined exactly how much material to remove without grinding the frets down too far. If done by hand, it takes a really skilled person to get the same results and not take off too much material. Plus, doing it by hand takes WAAAAY more time than a PLEK machine does. So for a shop that is very busy the PLEK can really allow them to work on more guitars and get them back into the hands of their owners much quicker. And the less relief and lower action you prefer, the more critical the fret leveling and crowing becomes. I'd rather have a PLEK analyze and do it over a human, where all the need to do is pass that file or block over the frets with too heavy of a hand, and you're screwed.

    I'm not saying it's the be all, end all solution, or it shouldn't be done by hand, I'm just saying know what you're talking about first before you trash something that does the same thing as something else you have no issue with. A fret level, crown and polish is just that, a fret level, crown and polish, despite the method/procedure used, be it a PLEK or done by hand.
     
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  6. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    on the other hand brian setzer makes his own amps and pedals because he knows what he wants.
     
  7. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    wouldn't you rather have the right tool for the job?
     
  8. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    I don't know what he plays now, but in the past he played a Gretsch which would probably never satisfy a Plek-player. And he used Blonde Bandmasters, didn't he, along with a Roland Space Echo.
     
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  9. studio1087

    studio1087 Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I think this is right on. A YouTube personality with 68,000 followers did a puff advertisement piece for Gibson.

    “I just happened to get a free new guitar from Gibson’s reorganized production line and I’m going to take to an expert guitar shop and we’ll Plek it!”

    Shop keeper “the nut could be lower but look at these scientific displays that show how well this Gibson Guitar was made.....by gosh it’s good. What a fine Gibson guitar!”

    Ok.

    I’ll admit it it......If I got a $2700 guitar for free I’d wear a dress on television and do cartwheels with no underpants on. Don’t try and visualize. You’ll throw up in your mouth a little. Sorry. I digress.

    :cool:

    I just paid for a new J45 Studio. I paid for it! :mad: What the hell am I doing wrong?

    I thought the guitar looked and sounded very nice.
     
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  10. dazzaman

    dazzaman Tele-Afflicted

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    I watched the video a while back. I thought it was a clever move on Gibson's part. And I am sure they would have made sure it was as good as anything could be since he was previously very critical. The video didn't come across to me as a deliberate advertisement, although I have noticed that many of his more recent videos do tend to about him being gifted gear etc. But, hey, if we got ourselves in the position to be gifted stuff in the expectation of a call out the majority of us probably would - he has worked hard to get there. And, of course, the video was also good advertising for the guitar shop in question. Clever move for them too...
    If he was really wanting to do an informative video he could have arranged for a half-dozen guitars (by different manufacturers) to be pleked and compare the results.
     
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  11. jvin248

    jvin248 Poster Extraordinaire

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    .

    He should have said, "I'm impressed, great job Factory Plek machine", because they run every Gibson across one of three machines they have at the end of the line.


    Gibson gives all manner of free guitars to popular bands. Back in the 70s with the wave of smashing guitars ... they took away giving free guitars to KISS after seeing the cost of the band smashing guitars five nights a week for a whole tour. Ibanez got their foot in there and other places. Youtubers are the new media artists needing attention from Artist Relations departments. PRS got started with back-stage stalking of Santana that today might get restraining orders slapped on people. The Strat was saved by Hendrix. The LP by LZ. The Tele never needed saving.

    If you subscribe to enough channels, you will see the point that they announce "I'm moving my shop/studio" once or twice to "I'm quitting my day job and going full time youtube so I can put up three videos a week plus a two hour live feed ramble" and then eventually they have a video "youtube sucks, they changed the algorithm and I can't depend on the ad revenue anymore".

    ------------------------


    When Gibson does videos of their headstocks like this ... then I'll believe they are making a real effort. I didn't find it but there is another Fender advertisement of the heaviest guy working at the factory then standing on a neck too.

    [​IMG]

    .
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  12. Ron R

    Ron R Friend of Leo's

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    I don't think you actually watched the video, did you? Because that wasn't the tone of the video at all. It was actually very complimentary of the quality and stated numerous times "that's why you buy from a reputable dealer" (who at least in theory will make the minor adjustments like filing the nut before you buy). It was bordering on pro-Gibson propaganda.
     
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  13. ricknbaker

    ricknbaker Tele-Holic

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    This is so true. A down to Earth friend of mine was taken out to meal at a fancy restaurant - le Manoir aux Quat seasons. When asked if he'd enjoyed his £50 steak, he replied 'yes, it was very nice. But no better than the one i had for £8 in Weatherspoons last night'
     
  14. DNestler

    DNestler Tele-Meister

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    I have a thing...

    You've probably all heard the adage, "the ends do not justify the means." What that means is your results are not in and of themselves valuable unless the process you use to achieve them accords with the rules of the 'game' and is ethical. (You can't cheat on an exam and justify your conduct by saying, "But I passed!")

    With that in mind I observe western cultures and watch as outcomes (the ends) are continually trumpeted regardless of the process (the means). VAR at the Women's World Cup is, in my opinion, an example of valuing the outcome more than the process. When NCAA (American) Football stopped having 'team penalties' for off side, I saw that as outcome over process. There are more numerous examples in the world of politics, but I'll leave the subject alone in deference to the rules of conduct here.

    I see the OP's point as recognising an example of outcome over process. The thing is valued more than the activity the thing makes possible.

    I don't know about you guys, but I like making music enough that I would do it on a Les Paul or a Hondo, a cheap beater mandolin or a Lloyd Loar signed Gibson F5. Gear head stuff is fun, but not at all the point.

    Daniel
     
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  15. ricknbaker

    ricknbaker Tele-Holic

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    I love that vid of him at the Hammersmith Odeon explaining his sound. 'ive got a Tele here but I used to use a Les Paul. Just plug it in and turn it up.' he sarts playing and it sounds exactly like Mick Ronson.
     
  16. ben smith

    ben smith Tele-Meister

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    exactly! it's not what you have got it's how you use it.
     
  17. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Friend of Leo's

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    Been there, done that with websites setup specifically for search placement to display targeted ads. I was bringing in at least $3k a month from them for about 18 months. Google changed the rules and bye-bye bucks.

    That experience makes me leery about trusting any big tech company as a primary source of income.
     
  18. cyclopean

    cyclopean Friend of Leo's

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    oof. meant to type "billy zoom". i got my 80s rockabilly guys confused.
     
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  19. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Tele-Afflicted

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    yes but if you want to seem agressive, nothing beats a human head in a jar. especially if its a recognizable person, say Walt Disney...

    and a pair of genuine samurai swords,beats a guitar under glass anyday. if you want to be ironic, a photographic of you givin the 1st dollar you ever made to a bum that looks just like Richard Branson ( alot of bums do you know).
     
  20. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Tele-Afflicted

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    send me 5$ to learn how to keep from getting ripped off...
     
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