This is what depresses me about guitars these days

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by noah330, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. brookdalebill

    brookdalebill Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Nothing about the way things are in guitar world depresses me.
    Guitars are good, cheap and plentiful.
    I think we are all just waiting for someone to make guitar interesting again.
    That doesn’t depress me though.
    Whomever assumes the mantle will need to be truly special and (hopefully) unique.
    It’ll happen.
    I’ll wait.
    I’ve been waiting for awhile.
     
  2. Rufus

    Rufus Tele-Afflicted

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    What someone else does with their property is no concern of mine. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over someone else not having the same (high?) standards that I do. If their YouTube vid offends me, common sense tells me to watch something else.
    Certainly we all like to learn, discuss and "improve" our guitars or else we would not be here. What often turns me off about many players is that there is often an underlying, thinly veiled competitive side...as in "who's better." or who "doesn't deserve" something.

    My equipment/tools (whether it's musical or woodworking) are MUCH nicer than my skills in either of these chosen hobbies...but that's MY problem. If it offends someone that I own some decent vintage amps yet never play outside my home, that's THEIR problem.
    If somebody wants to take a chainsaw to their holy grail 53 Tele, I am about as concerned as I am about what Kim Kardashian is wearing today.
    Yes, our musical heroes made legendary music with their instruments, but in the end, a guitar is a tool...nothing more than wood and metal.
     
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  3. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Are there GCs that do initial set-ups?
     
  4. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    its the age of the critic..been off for a year & stuck on gear sites & wasting time buying gear for something to do vs really needing it,,soon as we got back to studio last month..100% positive.meeting bands-engineers...no arguing over gear..or trying to make a SS amp work right..or low volume playing not sounding right, mim vs mia..Gib vs fen..ect..it's musicians..playing what they got in ways that have have always worked..same guitars--same amps..same mic positions...its the critics ruining it,,not the players
     
  5. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's

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    No I sure didn't...I was keenly aware of my inability. In fact, I was embarassed to take my gear to the tech because he was proud of his work (had his own band as well) and would hand me back the guitar waiting to see my elation when I played it. Knowing that I sucked I went as far as having a built in excuse of why I couldn't play it (wore a finger splint) at the moment. It happened enough times that he asked me what I did for a living that would cause so many finger injuries?

    I still consider myself below average as a guitar player after these 7 years (for my experience level) but I have come a very long ways so I just keep pushing on.

    You make another good point about how it never seems fair that those who have the talent often don't have the money and vice versa. Sort of like watching all those guys in their 70's driving around in new Corvettes at 25 mph below the speed limit. I can honestly say that I would gladly trade all my gear in for more ability any day of the week.
     
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  6. Blrfl

    Blrfl Tele-Holic

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    I wouldn't say it was Plek'd, but I would say it was put on a Plek machine and measured. There's a subtle-but-important difference.

    The only modification to the guitar I saw in the video was an adjustment to the nut done by hand with a file.

    The machine doesn't eliminate the need for a competent technician. That isn't the point.

    A guitar is mechanical system that works well within a set of physical limits. The better you can measure the system and the more precisely you can change it, the better the results. The point of the machine is to make the measurements and the changes and can do both more accurately than a human. What it can't do is make the decisions about what changes to make; that still takes a human that understands how the system works and what the player wants. It's a tool, nothing more.

    In the interest of full disclosure, my G&L was factory Plek'd and it's the best-playing guitar I own. I'd bet good money that after I wear the frets out, the factory could do a re-fret set everything back up precisely as it was based on the Plek data from when it went out the door the first time.
     
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  7. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

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    I used to think I wasn't good enough for my equipment, so I took lessons and got much better. What difference does it make if you're only out to please yourself? The salesman couldn't care less what you play like, and neither does Gibson.
     
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  8. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    Have you ever noticed that online only the poor kids practiced their asses off and could actually play while those rich kids were always talentless hacks?

    I was a poor kid who played a lot but one of the best players I remember was a kid a few years older than me who I would run into once in a while. He was prob 15 and had a full JCM-800 stack, a JC-120, a Digitech petalboard with those double petals they made at the time (only ever seen one of those since) and a bunch of Ibanez stuff.

    Typical rich kid from a prep school with the attitude to match. 80s James Spader could have played him in the movies perfectly but this guy could play circles around any of us.

    I don't fault parents for buying their kids the best instruments they can afford. I wish I had been so lucky!
     
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  9. chris m.

    chris m. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Plek helps ensure QC without utterly depending on the expertise of the worker. Back in the day you would have workers who spent their whole careers in a factory, learning everything from the bottom up. They could
    be master craftsmen that could ensure QC because they were truly skilled artisans. For a variety of reasons (competition, higher production, lower wages, better job opportunities elsewhere, etc., etc.), I suspect that
    companies want a more predictable business model that doesn't depend so much on having a lot of highly skilled artisans on staff. Using technologies like Plek allows them to succeed with less-skilled staff. Even if you still have
    a few master craftsmen on staff, running everything through a Plek machine can speed up the process for the craftsmen and allow higher throughput with good QC. We also live in an era of continuous process improvement and
    big data mining. Having consistent data from a Plek machine might allow analysis of small, systematic problems in fabrication or assembly that can then be corrected, increasing throughput while reducing problems and improving QC.

    Obviously, investment in these types of technologies doesn't make sense unless you're building enough units to warrant it. A small classical guitar builder in Paracho, Mexico isn't going to buy a Plek machine. (Although, you never know...
    some really smart dude is eventually going to figure out how to make a smartphone app that turns any smartphone with a camera into a Plek machine!).

    I remember going to delis on Long Island, NY, on the south shore. Small towns in Suffolks County, NY, to be specific. Those guys that worked in there were masters. There could be a long line at lunchtime and they were pumping out sandwiches, potato salad, drinks, etc., so fast,
    just two guys working behind the counter. You could make a very complex order, one time, and the whole thing would be locked into their brain even while they were juggling multiple other orders. But like the Soup **** episode on Seinfeld, you had to be ready with your order when it was your turn at the counter. Those guys were serious business. Why were they so good? Because from high school there
    ambition was to work in a deli, FOR LIFE. Seriously. Back in the day you could raise a family just by working full time in a local deli behind the counter. Now, most delis you go to-- except the remaining old school ones-- fuggedaboutit. They take your
    order, then take forever to make it, and keep asking you to repeat what you already said-- "did you want mayonnaise on it? What kind of bread did you say? Was that for here or to go?....". Because they are short-timers, not lifers. So then the more advanced delis come up with technologies to substitute for the lower technical abilities of the workers. Such as a well-designed assembly line system such as at Subway where each key question is asked in sequence as your sandwich is moving down the line so the worker doesn't have to actually remember your whole order. I imagine most people working in guitar factories these days aren't really lifers anymore, either.
     
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  10. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Seems like you have made up for any deficiencies in your childhood gear collection.
     
  11. noah330

    noah330 Friend of Leo's

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    I actually only had ****ty gear for the first couple years of my playing. When I got really serious I ended up buying a used LP Standard and 68 Vibrolux for about $200 from a friend of my dad's. At the time, that gear wasn't what kids my age wanted but I always liked older stuff so it was great for me.
     
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  12. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

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    There is no doubt in my mind that, at 13, I'd be a better player today if I'd had better equipment then. Even though good equipment was a lot cheaper then, it still seemed way out of my capacity to afford it, even with a job. A kid at that age back then couldn't make more than ten bucks a week, tops. My parents could afford it, but they'd have never given in to buying a decent electric and amp, even for Christmas. As it was, I had a POS, single pickup Kent bought at a pawn shop, and I had to plug in to the back of an old console record player with an adapter. The Kent had no truss rod, and the neck had warped to the point that it was unplayable in a few years.

    To my parents, electric guitars were a gateway to drugs, booze, and debauchery, but I didn't need that to end up there.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
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  13. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I assume statements like this are supposed to mean something but I’m never sure what?
     
  14. Ron R

    Ron R Friend of Leo's

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    I saw the video in question. He was very complimentary of how well it tested out, and I'd think it would serve to debunk some of the stories about quality control. Didn't see anything to get upset about.
     
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  15. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    When I see a YouTube video I don't like I just stop watching it and look for one I do like.
    Would have made more sense to take that guitar and video himself levelling the frets and doing a setup on it himself so others could learn something from it other than how to take it to a store for an expensive plek job.
     
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  16. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    it ain't what you got, its how you use it....
    never understood wall hangers behind glass, its like a butterfly pinned to velvet, a beautiful corpse..
     
  17. Boblets

    Boblets Friend of Leo's

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    When I see someone playing a guitar, I am always interested in the guitar, but more interested in the music and how the player sounds.

    If someone can sound like James Burton for example, I'm impressed and drawn to listen.



     
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  18. Jimmy Owen

    Jimmy Owen Tele-Holic

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    I’m no slouch—I’ve had a good run as a bar-band guitarist. I do have a couple of very nice guitars, including a Strat that became vintage while I owned it. When people compliment me on my tone, I say that it helps to have a favorite guitar.

    The other guitarist in my last band had financial hardships, hocked his Strat, got a loaner Squier. He still could play rings around most folks I know. Me, included.

    It ain’t the guitar, really. It helps to have one you like, but they don’t play themselves.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  19. bender66

    bender66 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I watched that vid linked here or another forum. 2 things...

    I had been under the impression that level of guitar had already been Plek'd by Gibson. He took it to another facility to check it as proof? Ok?

    The poster that linked the vid offered it as why he Pleks his guitars & was somewhat defensive when it was asked why not just let a good tech do the work.

    To each his own. Imo the differences, if any, can be one is as good as the other.

    It doesn't depress me regarding a playable guitar that costs a fortune, it's that a person was unwilling to listen & have a rational discussion. It's the psychological part that exhausts me.
     
  20. Festofish

    Festofish Tele-Meister

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    I fight this in myself. I’m constantly gassing for new(to me) gear. I try to keep in mind that the majority of my tone is in my hands.
     
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