Thing about 100% original minty vintage amps

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by keithb7, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. golfnut

    golfnut Friend of Leo's

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    I went looking for a Bassman after stumbling on some amps that took after the Bassman sound (I owned a Carr Impala) and decided that the Bassman sound is what I liked to hear the best. I wasn't even aware of any artists that used them till after I decided that was my sound. The other reason is I like the look of the amps I used to play when I started back in 1980.
     
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  2. grolan1

    grolan1 Friend of Leo's

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    golfnut, not in my mind but not sure the BF head/cabinet Fenders are considered super collectibles like some of the other amps. You did the right thing but I always keep the replaced parts to go with the amp if someone wants them. I've got the same amp without the 2x12 cab that I am mounting in a 1x12 combo cab. They are great sounding amps, but a bit to loud for my use, even at outside gigs. Love the mid's these amps deliver, really different from the other BF's of the time. Plan on using a Maverick Emenance speaker in the combo so I can adjust the overall volume.

    Nice score BTW!
     
  3. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    I understand the collection thing, because there will always be people like that who have more money than they can spend, so why not. Wouldn't we all like to pick up an interesting, rare piece of history if the money was no obstacle at at all? It's not an exercise in pragmatism that describes those people.

    What bothers me is the other side of the coin - a local store is selling a fair SF Deluxe Reverb with a replaced transformer and speaker for 'only' $2500. What?
     
  4. ac15

    ac15 Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I "get" vintage gear, but like the OP, I would never buy it if I had to treat it like a museum piece.

    I mean I "get" that too, but I play these things, I don't merely collect them.

    I own nice vintage amps and instruments, but none that I won't gig with.
     
  5. golfnut

    golfnut Friend of Leo's

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    No I don't think my BF Bassman is necessarily considered a collectible but with most of the prices in my area it seems people are trying to decide they are and the prices are rising. For what I pay I feel fortunate and wasn't necessarily looking for a complete near original in near museum condition. It just turned out that way.
    I'm a big amp guy and always have been. In the bands I'm playing in I usually have the volume set between 3 and 4. I can get it near the point that is almost starting to break up. Although my dirt comes from Lovepedal Eternity and a Kingsley Jester.
    When I bought the amp the seller did give me a bag with the original Caps and the documentation history on the amp, such as an invoice that showed some warranty work for cold solder joints in 1969 and the invoice for the cap job and the circuit map a tech did to confirm it as an AB165 even though the tube chart was AA864. None of that really means anything to me but I'll keep it all even though I'll likely not ever sell it.
    To me its kind of a mix between collection and playing. I'll take it out carefully sometimes but mostly I want it to be a furniture piece in my music room\office
     
  6. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Was your SF Twin in dead mint condition with original tags, tubes, with not a single part replaced? If so, playing it for 17 years without normal service was a bad idea - "player" amps need to be serviced just like a car's oil needs changing. But regardless, it is not the type of item that is bought and stored. It's not rare or especially valuable, and never will be.

    OTOH a '58 high power Twin, or a 2-pickup, no trussrod, first year Fender Broadcaster in dead mint condition with the original case, hang tags, shipping box etc. is a very valuable collector's item.

    You're talking about apples and oranges.

    Mint condition amps or instruments that are stored in temperature/humidity controlled vaults and are museum-type pieces are first year of issue and/or *extremely* rare/valuable boutique products. They are investments, like rare coins, antiques, watches - those are just a few examples of "collector's items".

    The collectable investment world is NOT the same as the "player instrument" world, even though many instrument collectors are players as well. There are a FEW overlaps, but not many.

    People who buy $350,000 '59 Les Pauls usually play them. But someone who finds an "under the bed" '59 Les Paul that has never even been out of the case since purchase - original strings, tags, dead-mint (including the case) will end up either paying a price you'll never hear about and the instrument will be stored as an investment - or if you DO hear about it it's because it ends up being sold at auction, usually to the R&R Hall of Fame, the Irsay private Collection, GC's Collection (of which many are played periodically - but not a dead mint example) or any of many other collectors you otherwise never hear about.

    Amps are a different ballgame. If a vintage, dead mint piece is going to be played it has to be serviced....at which point it is no longer dead mint. So buyers of those items have a tough decision to make - service & use it, losing much of the value, or keep it stored as a museum piece and investment, loaning it out for display only.

    You just can't compare a great condition example of something that's been in production for years (and is neither rare, nor especially desirable, nor valuable in ANY condition) to vintage, rare, valuable high-end pieces. That's why you don't "get" it - you are trying to understand a market you have never been involved with nor studied, just heard about.
     
  7. Olympus

    Olympus Tele-Meister

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    It's the same thing in the gun community. There are guns like the Colt Python that are kept in factory new, unfired condition with all the original paperwork, box, etc that sell for ridiculous prices. There are collectors who only want this kind if thing and if it's been fired even one time, they are not interested. My father in law says these people are just keeping the gun in pristine condition for the next guy and so on.

    Then there are the people who think guns are all tools and are meant to be shot and used.
     
  8. jazzguitar

    jazzguitar Tele-Afflicted

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    Me, for example.

    I would rather have an original condition amp where I can choose myself which parts need service, which ones will be replaced, which ones will stay contrary to "common knowledge" - an euphemism for internet myth - and most importantly how the work is done.

    I take care to desolder the old parts instead of ripping or cutting them out, even if it takes some extra time, I do know or can check which parts need replacement for safety and which ones can stay even if 50 years old or more.

    For example with blackface amps I usually keep the bypass caps - they're usually good - and only renew the filters. For example a plate load resistor drifted by 20% has to go while a screen resistor drifted by 50% is not problem. With '70s Silverfaces the bypass caps are replaced mandatorily. No one has ever accused me my own blackfaces or the amps serviced by me do not sound great.

    For example the bias balance some Silverfaces have is really a good idea even if not by Mr.Leo "Saviour" Fender, and ripping it out to install a bias adjust is to me, the pinnacle of stupidity - it is both easier and less invasive to install an adjust while keeping the balance. It is probably what Leo would have done, his genius being among other things, to improve his products when a better idea came his way.

    There are enough guys out there calling themselves repairmen or even experts who just rip out any parts they think should be pulled, some of which then end up on ebay for high $. That is dishonest and and to me, an outrage.

    Not to badmouth any person but to make my point
    :
    http://www.blueglow.de/TechPaper/Weber.html


    Example in question, this one was really expensive but all original

    [​IMG]

    Just my $0.02 phew !!!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2016
  9. Mayas caster

    Mayas caster Tele-Holic

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    I'm with you on this one keithb7. Vintage amps are made to be enjoyed, at least those wich survived, as old cars are made to be driven. All my vintage amps are working fine and I changed everything that had to be. What a pleasure to hear a 60 year old amp roar.

    My 48 Princeton had never been opened before 2010. She was working ok, but it was time some componants were changed.
     
  10. djh22

    djh22 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Effing brilliant!
     
  11. bigben55

    bigben55 Friend of Leo's

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    I'll never be a collector. I'll take my BFSR anywhere I can use it. But if I was gonna gig 5x a week, I'd probably look at a new mfg clone. You don't really lose in tone, but they're replaceable if damaged or stolen.
     
  12. chezdeluxe

    chezdeluxe Poster Extraordinaire

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    Paint is not intended to remain in the can.
     
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  13. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Jazzguitar. I've started just adding a voltage pot on silverfaces too. Might have been from seeing something you posted I don't recall but it was here that I saw it. Kind of face plant moment. It's easier and way less intrusive.

    That said I told a friend about while he was doing a 69 SFSR. He's an old school guy so he mounts the pot in the easiest place possible.
    He drilled through the chassis. :)
    Actually makes it nicer but I don't drill holes in chassis.
    On the other hand it's a 69 SFSR, so no real harm done.

    The bypass caps went to crap in the late blackface years. When they went to the smaller ones from the large toilet paper roll ones. I still just do all the electrolytics at the same time though.

    I also cringed when I watched that GW video a few years bavk talked about in your link. Expecially since I'd assume the guy would have a decent set up with some decent tools.
    Looked like a Primitive Pete cartoon from back in shop class !
     
  14. Johnny Cache

    Johnny Cache Former Member

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    I had a friend who did that, he must of had over a 1000 Hot Wheels. He was my favorite bass player, may he RIP.
     
  15. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The collector thing has a couple more years at most so fix/mod away to your heart's content.

    There will be no one interested in old yellow and brown amps that will actually buy them so...
     
  16. johnnyha

    johnnyha Tele-Afflicted

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    There's a big difference between an adult collector displaying unopened hot wheels, and the anothe guy keeping a beautiful vinatge amp and not playing it. The one guy I understand, the other one I never will.
     
  17. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I gassed for a PRS dragon in left hand, I foumd the only one made on ebay it was lizard green with gold hardware mother of pearl , turquois, abalone , silver and gold inlays
    only $60,000.00 35 close up pictures of this work of art, covering every inch of it 's handbuilt magnificance, then the 36 th picture of some person playing it , the bubble burst, and it dawned on me it's just a fricken guitar , I have 22 of those little buggars at home and I play each one. for 60.000.00 dollars I could own 120,000, Epiphones at about 500.00 each.

    Gas disolved that day and never came back
     
  18. keithb7

    keithb7 Friend of Leo's

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    Responding to a couple of comments, I feel the need to, I started this thread ;) After reading some replies, I can see how a purist collector with
    mattresses full of money would buy one. However comparing it to a Hotwheels collection or a collection of Trolls or stickers in my opinion is a little hard to accept as a comparison. An amp is an instrument. It shapes and creates sounds that come from within us. It makes music. Talent spews out of an artist's fingers, through the guitar and amp. The person is letting their soul out. Not all of us can do that. There is a real human connection there to a man made object. I fail to see that in a Hotwheels or Trolls. Stickers, maybe. LOL. The same goes for Violins or whatever other instrument you choose.

    Regarding Fender BF caps. I did the Bias and B+ caps in my 1966 DR right after I bought last August. It was in all original condition until I bought it. Real clean too. I listened to the internet hype and left the original 1966 dated cathode caps alone. I used it like that until just last Friday night. It started making some
    interesting noises. I decided it was time to change those cathode caps the very next day. All done, it now sounds like $1 million bucks again. Been using it all week too since I changed the caps last Sat. I surmise the caps were problematic after 50 years in use. I'll never make it as a collector.

    Speaking of untouched amps I know of a 1959 HP Tweed Twin. Never serviced. A real bar room bruiser. I dare not plug it in.
    It will be interesting to see what someone might pay for in it in well used, yet all original condition. We'll soon see hopefully. I get to test
    the market with this one. Help me write the ad:

    "Barn find 1959 Tweed Twin amp. 100% original never touched....Add your description here and post. It'll be fun. LOL.
     
  19. RubyRae

    RubyRae Friend of Leo's

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    I can't relate either. First I don't have that kind of disposable income, secondly I am a player. My 1968 pro reverb was the closest thing to mint I had ever seen, and the first thing I did was take it to David Allen to make it sound sweet. It needed work, still has the 2 prong cord which I need to change, but I play that thing 3 hrs a day, and set my drinks on it. Still looks brand new. I don't care what amp or guitar it is, i'll play them without hesitation, or fix them to make them ready to play. Sure I'd be extra careful with some minty tweed amp from the 50's but I'd play the hell out of it.
     
  20. AndreDanican

    AndreDanican Tele-Holic Gold Supporter

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    Dumb. These are mass produced electronic devices that need servicing to function, a dime a dozen. Service them properly and play them, that's what they are for. As someone already said, this is a fetish. Ridiculous.
     
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