Thing about 100% original minty vintage amps

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by keithb7, Apr 27, 2016.

  1. keithb7

    keithb7 Friend of Leo's

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    Thing about 100% original minty vintage amps. I see sellers post mint original 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb amps for example. Never been touched by a soldering iron. Never serviced. Looks like it's never been played. So they charge a premium. Like lots. The seller dares not service it. He'll de-value the amp and lower his windfall. So who in their right mind buys this amp? You can't plug it in. You can't play it or enjoy it. What the heck good is it? Are there really folks out there who'll buy it and seal it up and store it? Why? Sounds kinda nuts to me. My '66 DR is near mint. I pulled the original the b+ caps. I replaced the original cathode caps. I jettisoned the original bias caps and original speaker. I stored the original pulled parts. I installed a grounded plug. I use the amp. Play it often. Why the heck would I buy one otherwise? I don't get it. I just can't wrap my head around buying virgin untouched original amp to own, for the sake of just owning it. Never using it.
     
  2. deytookerjaabs

    deytookerjaabs Friend of Leo's

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    You don't happen to own any functional antiques which you don't own for their function?
     
  3. boredguy6060

    boredguy6060 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Now that we are exposed to more buyers/sellers than ever before. We can watch gear from all over the country/ continent being put up on eBay or CL every hour.
    People are finding pristine, totally untouched amps, guitars, jewelry, ect, and they are getting all they can get as would be expected.
    In this huge pool of potential buyers there are ones who believe that a pristine example of any given amp, should be stored away for posterity. To be left totally untouched just like the day Fender shipped it.
    They don't intend to play them, they are museum pieces, just for looking.
    A hundred years from now people may want to know exactly what an original Fender amp looked like.
    I'm not one of these people, but I can see their point.
     
  4. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    Yeas there are - but very few. Most I'm aware of are outside the US. The value mint examples as a type of artwork. Mint guitars are normally taken out periodically and played, but mint vintage amps can't be - too much of a danger of blowing one up simply by turning it on. That's the problem with dead-mint, collectable vintage amps - in order to retain their "mint condition" value normal servicing simply can't be done.

    You have to be able to understand the "collectables" market as completely different from the "player's" market. There is, of course, a crossover sector - those who collect original examples but have them serviced and play them. These examples will be in excellent condition, but not "found in the box" mint condition. But collector's of mint, untouched vintage amps are essentially the same as collectors of many other "functional" products that, if serviced and able to be used, will lose a large percentage of their value. It's an investment market, not a musician's one.
     
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  5. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

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    Years ago I bought my 52 Pro for $250 and it had been painted black and had a JBL speaker and it popped and crackled so I took it to a well known local amp guy and he said "I don't want to change anything, this amp is all original inside" and I said "Yeah, but it doesn't work right, I can't use it" so I took it to someone else that fixed it but also tried to steal it... long story.... I learned to do basic stuff to my own amps after that.
    Stuff has to work or it is

    Repair guy: "I don't want to change anything, this amp is all original inside"
    Me: "Yeah, but it doesn't work"
     
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  6. Fred Rogers

    Fred Rogers Tele-Afflicted

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  7. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    I have a friend who is a professional muso ( last tour was with an Elvis guy with the original Vegas girls) - he is a great muso and REALLY nice guy.

    One thing I don't get. He has a 60s Tele ( Ash butterscotch) in a glass case
    of my usual shop, where he worked for awhile.

    I reckon I've seen that valuable , beautiful guitar in a that glass case for years ( store security and air-con obviously a plus). BUT I've never seen it out of the case, heard it played by him or anyone?

    I've heard from my son's violin teacher, a concert musician in Europe, say that the woods should be moved. Her teaching violin is a "mere" $30,000.

    My question is- why do people collect and not play- especially when they can play well?

    I had an original Twin Reverb SF with JBL speakers but I used it and played many gigs over the 17 years I had it. JHMO
     
  8. wildschwein

    wildschwein Tele-Afflicted

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    Fetishisation. When a commodity is instilled with a value that far exceeds its actual use value. Vintage cars are a good example of this.
     
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  9. Paul G.

    Paul G. Friend of Leo's

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    You are absolutely correct. A thing is not that thing if it is unusable as the thing that the thing is.

    My favorite was seeing an ad about 10 years ago in a vintage motorcycle magazine for a brand-new, still-in-the-crate Norton Commando, for 6 figures.

    Take it out of the crate, it's a maybe $30,000 bike. Leave it in the crate and basically it's a crate.

    So do you pay $250k for a $30k bike or do you pay $250k for a box YOU CAN NEVER OPEN?

    Or do you get a motorcycle and ride the thing?
     
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  10. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

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    For me, that's it! (although I had to read it three time to get it ;))
    A painting hangs beautifully on a wall for everyone to see. An amp is suppose to be heard!

    Caps are the only big question mark (depending on how it's been stored)... changing caps is like changing tires on an antique car. It has to be done and nobody thinks less of you if you do it.
     
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  11. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    I love untouched originals.
    Just so much nicer to work on than one that's been messed up by someone.
     
  12. Johnny Cache

    Johnny Cache Former Member

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    I find it strange that the first thing some people do when they get a new amp is mod it. I never thought buying something you don't like from the start was a good investment. It's one thing to fix them or up grade some components as needed, that's about all I like to do. Keep them working and close to original. For those who like to mod that's fine, most the time I find it a huge waste of time and money for little benefit.
     
  13. Johnny Cache

    Johnny Cache Former Member

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    Well that was silly of him, he could fix it and still keep it original, replacing bad components with new ones of the same kind isn't really a bad thing and still counts in my book as original. Would he not replace a bad tube because it was original, or filter caps or a broken switch or pot? Repairs are part of keeping something working.
     
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  14. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Johnny I don't mod amps. I do change electrolytics and install a grounded cord though. With any luck that's all I have to do.

    If I wanted more gain, effects loops and other stupid crap.
    I'd buy a Mesa. :)
     
  15. keithb7

    keithb7 Friend of Leo's

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    I guess I'm just in a different league. I won't throw thousands into a vintage amp that I can't enjoy. I recently found a 100% original 1959 5E3. First thing I did was document everything with pics. Then I serviced it. Now I play it. If money was pouring in everyday, and I already had one of every vintage amp I wanted, I suppose one could run out of amps to buy. So then maybe I'd start a musem like Joe B. Maybe then I guess I could see myself buying a mint untouched 1959 Bassman to put under glass. Until then? I just keep picking up vintage players from widows. ;)
     
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  16. Mutato

    Mutato Tele-Meister

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    I know people who collect Hot Wheels. They keep them in their original blister packages. Never to be played with. The older, rarer, in the package gets more $$. Def a different attitude of being a player or a collector. I'm sure there are people who do both. Maybe if you can afford an expensive vintage amp that's untouched, you can afford other amps that you'd play.
     
  17. 4 Cat Slim

    4 Cat Slim Friend of Leo's

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    Hot wheels,Beanie Babies, Happy Meal toys, and baseball cards all have their collectors who make some extravagant claims
    about their value, so do guitar and amp enthusiasts. I take it all with a grain of salt, whatever makes these folks happy...
     
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  18. tery

    tery Poster Extraordinaire

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    Some people collect Corvettes .
    Some players want a Vintage Amp to recreate the exact tone of an artist that used the same Amp .
     
  19. grolan1

    grolan1 Friend of Leo's

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    Not my cup of tea... they are at least meant to be played at home if you're worried it might get damage taking it out, or worse yet stolen. But I say I guess I could understand it to a degree as if I'm not careful, my entire music room would be wall to wall vintage amps. I just love everything about them.. guilty as charged.

    As long as they aren't taking all of the good vintage amps off the market but doing this, I'm OK with it I think. Leo would freak out seeing some of what goes on today...
     
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  20. golfnut

    golfnut Friend of Leo's

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    The only vintage amp I've bought is my 1965 Fender Bassman head and 2X12 Cabinet. The original purchaser bought it brand new in 1965 and used it sparingly for about 4 years. After which he stored it in a closet where it stayed until its death. The guy that I bought it from had bought it from the guys wife after his passing. Everything was there original, manual, original speaker cable, etc. It was in perfect shape except dusty. He took it in and had the 3 prong plug put on it and caps replaced. So did this actually devalue it? As I was looking for a Bassman for about a year I was up on the going prices and for a perfect condition Bassman I feel I got an excellent deal on it at $1,700 CA (About $1,300 US) I don't think I'd have been as motivated to pay that price even though if it wasn't all ready to be played. I don't plan on gigging with it a lot but I do want to take it out occasionally.
     
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