There is no D# in the key of Cm...

nobis17

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...nice lady sending me chord charts.

Got some gigs coming up, adding lead guitar and vocals to a former duo, now wanting to go out as a trio.

It shouldn't bother me, but it does. Cm is 3 flats -- Eb, Ab, Bb. The scale is C D Eb F G Ab Bb. Eb is right there. D#? Nope.

This always annoyed me as well, I always thought to myself it was lazy transcription. D# and a F look prettier together (and a little less cluttered) on a stave instead of the second of Eb and F. But I think it just confuses the musicians. It's not an accidental, it just the minor third.

I get your frustration ;)
 

MatsEriksson

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You thought THAT was a problem?

What about us Scandinavian countries that has used the tone H instead of B for ages? The one below C. That's not too unwieldy to keep track of. But when they used that H note flat, it's called B. Not Hb. Or Bb. It means "your" one that is called B, or the rest of the world. It's never called Bb or B flat. Try to get that one around your head as you try to read just chord charts, while playing.

Agree Cm is flat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_(musical_note)
 

Tonetele

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That H and Bb in Scandinavian is indeed confusing.
Let's face it, we HAVE to have a UNIVERSAL SYSTEM as music is a universal language.

Also I'd like to see the term 1/2 step eradicated. It looks more like a weird time signature- like 1 minim per bar?? Even Rick Beato- a former Music professor uses this term. There- my rant.
 

kplamann

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...nice lady sending me chord charts.

Got some gigs coming up, adding lead guitar and vocals to a former duo, now wanting to go out as a trio.

It shouldn't bother me, but it does. Cm is 3 flats -- Eb, Ab, Bb. The scale is C D Eb F G Ab Bb. Eb is right there. D#? Nope.

Actually there is a D# in Cm.

Think of the dominant major chord, G = G B D. (You already have an accidental there, Bb > B.)

Now think of the augmented dominant major chord, Gaug = G B D#.

That's a D#, not an Eb, strictly speaking, as it originates in an augmented fifth and not in a diminished sixth.

Obviously that's the same key on a piano and the same fretted note on a guitar. If you just want to make players hit those keys or play those fretted notes, notation does not make a difference.

However, using the correct note in notation underlines the harmonic context. Instrumentalists (and singers) having the possibility of pitch variations may take this into account. A cappella choirs and string ensembles would normally play or sing a D# with a slightly different pitch than an Eb.
 

MatsEriksson

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And horn instruments and the woodwind section. They buy instruments where Bb is "their" C. Isn't it easier to move to India and learn their scale system and be done with it?

Who has the preferential right of interpretation?

Fretless anyone, to get rid of all that, no bickering and whining anymore about Scandinavian confusings, horn instrument confusion and sharps and flats?

custom-octavia-fretless-guitar-7-string.jpg


I live in a flat right now, but I try to stay sharp on top of it, otherwise it would turn out A Major disaster. I lived here since I was A minor. In one of the rooms, I have a bar .... oh, no, not that old geeky joke again...it will only get worse you C.

Not heard in the Woodstock Film, but overheard on stage with Country Joe McDonald & The Fish's backing band :

- Gimme' a F !!!!
- (his guitarist ,very stoned) sure thing, and strikes a 1st fret full barre chord.
- Gimme an U !!!
- (guitarist): huh !?!?
- Gimme a C !!!
- Yeah, right here...
- Gimme a K !!!
- what !?!!? huh !!?! mumbling "..he's really sooo out of it, tonight.."
 
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drf64

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You thought THAT was a problem?

What about us Scandinavian countries that has used the tone H instead of B for ages? The one below C. That's not too unwieldy to keep track of. But when they used that H note flat, it's called B. Not Hb. Or Bb. It means "your" one that is called B, or the rest of the world. It's never called Bb or B flat. Try to get that one around your head as you try to read just chord charts, while playing.

Agree Cm is flat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_(musical_note)


no wonder your avatar looks so pensive.
 

oldunc

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What about the E minor melodic scale, where the 7th is sharp on the way up (D#) and natural on the way down?

E F# G A B C D# E D C B A G F# E


It's been a long time, but as I recall that's the harmonic (because it includes the leading tone) scale; the melodic minor is with the 6 and 7 both raised on the way up, natural on the way down. I always liked the harmonic minor for practice because of the augmented seconds; lots of position changes at speed.
 

lathoto

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D# and Eb are enharmonic. I reserve D# for the keys of E, B, F# and C#. If there is a horn player sitting in I don't play in C#. The temperament leans to Bb. "It's not like you can capo a saxophone." You may quote me.
 




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