The wood has to matter, even if it's only a tiny bit

[Blues Twanger]

Instead of putting this into the current thread that devolved into the topic, I wanted to make my own post. For the attentions!

Tone isn't just down to strings and pickups. It can't be from a physics standpoint. The wood and the body construction add to the system. It might be a very small addition, but it's there.

The argument that the strings vibrating in the magnetic field of the pickups is all that matters overlooks one important thing. The relationship between the two is not 100% fixed within the system.

Is the body or anything else connected to the pickups or strings vibrating as well? Yes, as is obvious to anyone who has played any sort of guitar. Then that movement, even if small, must be summed into the vibrational relationship between the string and pickups. In essence, the pickup vibrates as the body does, changing the relationship between the strings and pickup, the source of the tone.

When we change woods and body types to alter how the guitar vibrates, we change the degree to which the pickup moves in relation to the strings. It's how hollow bodies sound different to solid bodies. It's physics and it's real. We must consider the whole system even if 90% of it only impacts 1% of the signal.

/Rant

 

[Peegoo]

There is no science behind any of this. If there were, every player known for amazing tone would be using the same wood.

As well as the same pickups, and tuners, and strings, amp, speaker, etc., blah blah, et. al.

This is not thread crapping; rather, it highlights the Real Beauty of guitars: there are plenty of choices available to make just about any player happy.

For a while

 

[mfguitar]

But if your pickups are mounted with springs or surgical tubing... Everything does matter, however, most variables are rather insignificant. The player, now that matters

 

[Red Ryder]

The woods used to make bodies, necks and fretboards doesn't mean doodley squat with an electric guitar. But when a guy wearing a top hat and sunglasses says "Brazilian rosewood fretboard give me excellent toenail quality", someone is going to believe it and buy that guitar.

 

[Wheelhouse]

At a theoretical level, sure the vibrations will be minutely different because of the medium the strings/pickups are attached to and how they're attached. At a practical level, your ear isn't going to hear differences that are so tiny. And here's another thing to think about: since it's the vibrations and vibration transfers that you're getting at in your post, don't you think the material of the nut is going to make a much bigger difference than the wood? After all, that's literally the very end point of the string vibrations... And yet, tons of guitars are out there with ordinary plastic nuts. And it's the most critical part of the vibrating string! (with the bridge)

 

[Freeman Keller]

..... The wood and the body construction add to the system. It might be a very small addition, but it's there.....

That is exactly my feeling, everything about a guitar makes a difference but most of it is so small that it becomes unimportant. Each piece of wood is different, both between species and within a species, which makes it very hard to assign any particular engineering properties to a given chunk of wood.

Not only is each piece of wood different, what the builder does with a piece of wood changes it dramatically. I build acoustic and archtop guitars and I spend a lot of time working with each piece of wood - I believe that I can affect the sound of the guitar by the things I do.

I also think there are a bazillion other things that have an affect on the sound of a guitar - scale length, location of pickups, chambering, density of different parts and materials.

But they are so small in the context of the pickups and signal chain that I don't worry about any of them.

Rant on.

 

[fretWalkr]

I've thought about coming up with a pie chart that shows all the variables involved and the percentage of each one's effect on tone. Totally subjective, of course, and it would depend on whether it's clean tone or heavily distorted. I think the biggest slice of the pie would be the player.

 

[Beachbum]

If we're talking about flat top acoustics or non center block Jass guitars then OK. But solid body to solid body? I have to say that science aside and with all due respect I just will never understand the urge to debate what sound a flies butt makes when it farts.

 

[Gaylord Amsterdam]

Instead of putting this into the current thread that devolved into the topic, I wanted to make my own post. For the attentions!

Tone isn't just down to strings and pickups. It can't be from a physics standpoint. The wood and the body construction add to the system. It might be a very small addition, but it's there.

The argument that the strings vibrating in the magnetic field of the pickups is all that matters overlooks one important thing. The relationship between the two is not 100% fixed within the system.

Is the body or anything else connected to the pickups or strings vibrating as well? Yes, as is obvious to anyone who has played any sort of guitar. Then that movement, even if small, must be summed into the vibrational relationship between the string and pickups. In essence, the pickup vibrates as the body does, changing the relationship between the strings and pickup, the source of the tone.

When we change woods and body types to alter how the guitar vibrates, we change the degree to which the pickup moves in relation to the strings. It's how hollow bodies sound different to solid bodies. It's physics and it's real. We must consider the whole system even if 90% of it only impacts 1% of the signal.

/Rant

I believe the same thing, I get a lot of grief for saying so, maybe our ears are just more sensitive like people who can hear the hum from florescent lights when others can not.

 

[regularslinky]

But if your pickups are mounted with springs or surgical tubing... Everything does matter, however, most variables are rather insignificant. The player, now that matters

There is an untapped market for boutique springs and surgical tubing.

 

[Gaylord Amsterdam]

This kid did an amazing good test of rosewood vs maple neck on same guitar. I can hear the difference can anyone else? I honestly want to know is it just me?

⚡️MIKEY⚡️ on TikTok

the most accurate rosewood vs. maple comparison #fyp #foryou #stratocaster #guitar #music #guitartok

www.tiktok.com

 

[pypa]

It makes a difference.

But probably not a difference that most mortals’ ears can hear beyond their own limitations as players and the effects of their hardware.

Tone wood obsession is imho a holdover from acoustic guitars where it really does make a practical difference even to the lay person. Even here it appears to be trumped by body design and construction. But even I can hear it.

On electrics? It matters about as much as my driving shoes matter to my driving ability.

 

[bottlenecker]

It's how hollow bodies sound different to solid bodies.

I think your hypothesis is not quite right. As you might expect, I'm offering my own:

Whatever a string is coupled to will absorb energy from the string, and give some back. How much energy, and how fast it transfers, is going to determine the attack/decay shape of the sound. This is more important to the identity of a sound than what the pickup or a clean amp does.

I think if you put the pickup on a stand and can hold the guitar the right distance away while you play it, a hollowbody will still sound like a hollowbody.

I don't think it has anything to do with air moving, or it's acoustic sound. The vestigial design that moves air also creates a recognizable identity in the way the string vibrates, which is picked up by the pickup.

Not only does the thin wood top create the large rounded attack shape of a single note, it likely also effects the way strings share energy and influence each other.

 

[Tricone]

I know what my ears tell me. Stainless steel rings like a bell for the body and a hard maple neck with an ebony fingerboard to steer it is a wonderful sound.
It is all in the ear of the beholder. If the differences are real to you, that is all the validation required.

 

[hemingway]

Guitars were originally made of wood because it was the cheapest, most convenient, workable material available. No one wondered what they would sound like.

Now they're made of wood for the same reasons - but also because some people will believe anything, despite what science says.

 

[Trenchant63]

doesn't mean doodley squat

I couldn’t are less about theoretical hypotheses or “proofs” about the wood not mattering for electric guitar. I’ve heard enough over my playing time to know it absolute does. No one can convince me otherwise.

 

[Novatuc]

Build a guitar with a mahogany body and build an identical body from hard maple then swap all the part between them. If you don't notice a difference you are dead.

 

[Red Ryder]

I've thought about coming up with a pie chart that shows all the variables involved and the percentage of each one's effect on tone. Totally subjective, of course, and it would depend on whether it's clean tone or heavily distorted. I think the biggest e pieslice of the pie would be the player.

I like pie

 

[Gaylord Amsterdam]

If wood does not matter someone should try an exaggerated test and Use Balsa wood for one and Mahogany for the other. I know there will be a tonal difference.

But let me say this: We can agree to disagree without thinking each other are stupid.

 

[JohnnyThul]

Tone is in the eyes to a large degree, so yeah, wood matters, if it looks good

But honestly, I have been working in MI for 20 years, and all the guitars that people ever raved about at being the best to their ears were always the ones which were the most beautiful to their eyes as well. Coincidence?

But to paraphrase PRSh: everything matters. And I believe that, to be true. Then it's up to your mentality or spirituality or whatever, that grades the importance of these things in a personal true order.