The Windows 11 racket

[TomBrokaw]

My system is fine for windows 11. It is the stupid secure boot that is holding me back. My C drive is formatted in MRB not GPT so the MB will not boot when secure boot is turned on. I have tried the easy fixes.....
I would think one would be able to change that when installing Win11?????

I don't think you can change the boot partition structure when updating from 10 to 11. Closest analogy I can think of would be like converting from tube to SS when adding an effects loop (although that is not real accurate) .

What I would recommend, if the computer is otherwise able to run 11, is to just get a new ssd and install 11 on that, and get an external case for the old ssd so you can get your data (which should be backed up and restorable already of course).

 

[imwjl]

The fact that their spec checker says Win 11 won't run on Intel i7 and 32GB RAM and tons of storage appears to be load of BS to me and a way of driving PC sales.

I completely agree in terms of being secure and patching. That's why I'll find a way to install 11 if at all possible.

I have a Mac too.

Of course I will ethically dispose, but I'd expect the bulk of the materials will be landfill at some stage.

The processor and your amount of RAM are not the point. A change in secure computing architecture is. That CPU and RAM spec can be in a cheap price point product or a first tier computer that was built with the right hardware standard. The standard was developed in 2009 and has shipped in products for 15 years now. Most who have this problem have very old hardware or didn't make best choices with their purchases.

You can choose other operating systems for most of the hardware not compatible. People who say Windows 11 or the hardware are not improvements are saying or typing something that is somewhat understandable ignorance or willful ignorance. It is often when the security matters are not understood you need to understand it same as other stuff in our lives.

The budget aspects are definitely something I understand but there's no racketeering here, no scams, and plenty of choice to have end point aka personal computing securely and with low costs.

Forgetting any features or capabilities, just information security changes requirements.

 

[Finger Blister]

For the Adventurist: "Flyby11"
2011 Windows 7 Dell Latitude E6420 laptop, Intel Core i7-2620M,
upgraded to SSD & 16GB RAM. Currently running Windows 11.
Runs fine, updates and all...
...for now.

 

[TomBrokaw]

Ah Ha ... is it that being 'older' i7s ... Win11 won't reccognise 32Gb of RAM , probably only managing , literally, 16Gb.
(Whereas, the latest i7s will recognise 32Gb)
ie Win11 ( should, imho) install but not fully work to the capacity of the computer?

My Skylake (2016) cpu recognized 32gb on windows 10, so a 16gb limit sounds like a problem of some sort, as opposed to an OS limitation.

Windows 11 Home supports up to 128gb of ram, and it only goes up from there. Pro supports up to 2tb (!) and Enterprise up to 6 freekin TB. That's as big as my storage drive! I'm running 64gb ram which is WAY more than I need, and it's all detected. I wouldn't even know how to test it in real world apps, although I am sure Prime95 could do it. But I digress.

 

[imwjl]

It fascinates me how just when you, I, start to under the MS OS they change it. I have a laptop that's MS 8 that works perfectly but can't update to 10, when it was able to do so.

I bought a gaming laptop that has 11. It runs smoothly but I have no idea on that thing. I cannot get ikmultimedia to not freeze up.

Pretty irritating.

Competitive in landscape and InfoSec aside, we can choose computers just like musical instruments. Choose stuff made really well and supported well, or cheap stuff more a mystery or a problem.

We finished giving nearly 1000 staff much personal support last summer now, but those who moved to what we advised for quality got very few to no compatibility problems. HP, Dell and Microsoft Surface have very high quality hardware and software much like you get with a Mac choice but you have to buy their right tier of product for the Dell and HP. Lattitude and Workstation for Dell, Pro or Elite for HP for example. $100 of it is for Pro version of Windows. Typically $50 - $200 of it for quality, warranty and post-sale support.

 

[imwjl]

OK in simple terms what does 11 do that 10 does not do .... and why would the average user need that?

The security changes are most pertinent in this situation.

Windows 10 vs. Windows 11: What’s different?​

	Windows 10	Windows 11
🖥 Look & feel	Classic Start menu on the left; square corners	More modern look; Start button centered; rounded corners
Start menu	Has live tiles (animated boxes)	Simpler: just pinned apps & recommended files
Taskbar	Apps align left	Default centered, can move left
Widgets	None by default	New “Widgets” panel for news, weather, calendar
Window snapping	Basic side-by-side	“Snap Layouts” for more ways to organize multiple windows
🗣 Voice & pen	Works but basic	Better support for voice typing & digital pens
Gaming	Good performance	Adds Auto HDR & DirectStorage (faster load times on supported hardware)
Security	Secure Boot & TPM optional	Requires TPM 2.0 & Secure Boot on by default (more modern security)
Android apps	Not built-in	Can run some Android apps (via Amazon Appstore)
✏ Touch & tablets	Works, but feels desktop-first	Smoother touch gestures; better tablet mode
Updates	Twice-yearly feature updates	Annual feature updates; generally smaller

---

In plain terms:​

• Windows 11 mostly looks newer and cleaner
• Makes it easier to arrange windows and switch tasks
• Adds some new tools like widgets and Android apps
• Needs newer hardware because it’s designed with newer security in mind

Everyday tasks (web, email, Word, photos, etc.) work pretty much the same.

 

[ChicknPickn]

While about 95% of what I do, I do on Linux, I also have a Windows 10 Pro desktop setup that is built out with all kinds of goodies and works perfectly.

"0Patch" is the solution to continued support I've chosen. At least another five years of support at a very reasonable price.

0Patch.com

 

[41144]

For Win11 ... Intel i7 chips need to be better than 7th generation ... even then tho' older motherboards can cause issues!

 

[notmyusualuserid]

For Win11 ... Intel i7 chips need to be better than 7th generation ... even then tho' older motherboards can cause issues!

Ryzen are a better option...

 

[imwjl]

Ryzen are a better option...

The real matter here is not Intel vs AMD. The who makes it and how a final product is done and supported with their products is the important point. First tier products are more conservative, tested more, and produced with these points of long life cycle and security as very high priorities.

 

[Linus Pickle]

We have 4 adults and 7 personally owned Windows 10 devices in our home, all functioning perfectly well.

Not a single one of them can run Windows 11.

My main PC is five years old, works and performs perfectly, and has a decent spec of Intel i7 and 32GB RAM and tons of storage. But MS checker says Windows 11 can't use the CPU.

These devices will carry on working, of course, but less and less safely.

And the "Extended Support Program" is, for the UK, £60 (ex. VAT) per device for a year, then doubling each year and this is just to get critical security patches.

So 7 working electronic devices that could and should carry on for a few years more will ultimately end up being compressed to landfill.

Hardly an environmentally sustainable or responsible business practice, Microsoft.

Strange. I've got a similar 5 year old PC (i7 Intel CPU) and it runs Windows 11 just as well as it did 10. I don't recall getting a warning about it not working when I upgraded.

It is frustrating to me that so many of the things we buy aren't built to last more than a few years. There's certainly a financial incentive for companies to make products that need to be replaced or upgraded every few years, and now it's harder and harder to even buy software as a one time purchase rather than a subscription.

 

[scelestus]

And this is why I’m moving to Apple. I know it has its issues but I’m done with Microsoft

I tried this but they demanded a credit card to update included software. Back it went.

I will eventually switch to Linux, I think, or reduce my reliance on a home computer.

 

[rze99]

A friend just sent me this.

Windows 10 users will have the option to continue receiving security updates for free beyond October 2025, so long as they sync their PC settings data with the cloud via a Microsoft Account.

Microsoft makes Windows 10 security updates FREE for an extra year — but there's a catch, and you might not like it

Windows 10 users will have the option to continue receiving security updates for free beyond October 2025, so long as they sync their PC settings data with the cloud via a Microsoft Account.

www.windowscentral.com

 

[rze99]

The processor and your amount of RAM are not the point. A change in secure computing architecture is. That CPU and RAM spec can be in a cheap price point product or a first tier computer that was built with the right hardware standard. The standard was developed in 2009 and has shipped in products for 15 years now. Most who have this problem have very old hardware or didn't make best choices with their purchases.

You can choose other operating systems for most of the hardware not compatible. People who say Windows 11 or the hardware are not improvements are saying or typing something that is somewhat understandable ignorance or willful ignorance. It is often when the security matters are not understood you need to understand it same as other stuff in our lives.

The budget aspects are definitely something I understand but there's no racketeering here, no scams, and plenty of choice to have end point aka personal computing securely and with low costs.

Forgetting any features or capabilities, just information security changes requirements.

You may well be right.
Interesting that the MS checker doesn't say any of that logical stuff about security architecture compliance. It just says no.
Still feels like racketeering to me.

 

[notmyusualuserid]

The real matter here is not Intel vs AMD. The who makes it and how a final product is done and supported with their products is the important point. First tier products are more conservative, tested more, and produced with these points of long life cycle and security as very high priorities.

Then Ryzen are a better option.

 

[imwjl]

You may well be right.
Interesting that the MS checker doesn't say any of that logical stuff about security architecture compliance. It just says no.
Still feels like racketeering to me.

I've had to know this in detail and where there's high risk for failure whether that's budget, business continuity, compliance or security risks. I've also had to follow it personally and the all of it was straight forward for consumer products but I fully understand many just don't drill into the details.

Then Ryzen are a better option.

It's fine to like AMD, but for actual CPUs that varies, some are much better and much worse. In this case the real important matter is understanding this point of the right overall product is best. For example when we were approaching Windows 7 EOL. About 100 PCs were AMD and another same size purchase was Intel. Within each were two different AMD and 3 different Intel CPU. Some of the AMD were always sounding like a vacuum cleaner, a few had CPU or mono replacements against 0 Intel, but the most important point is I did not cheap out and bought first tier HP and Dell all TPM compliant and we're getting a long life cycle.

My seems like forever point here on tech choices is first tier products can cost hardly any more when you subtract part is a Windows Pro license. They're always longer life cycle, better compatibility, and better reliability. They're way better for post-sale matters whether in warranty or an out of warranty matter. They're always perfect if we re-stage them with Linux to give them away.

 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

Back in the 90s I had a manager who had a good story. He’d been at a launch for some Microsoft product.

Apparently the first thing the presenter, addressing a bunch of hardware vendors, told them was he’s going to make them all rich.

New software, what some used to call bloatware, requires more hardware to accomplish the same tasks the previous version did with less.

Licensing/support is just another tactic to force you into submission to stay current. In the work I do we’re legally required to be on currently supported versions of software, even if future or even current versions of that software do not exist, which means migration to other platforms at varying levels of sophistication.

IT is a racket. And at the same time, the public is prone to shiny new things.

I sat in a presentation to medical and senior administration staff at a hospital I worked at. They were deciding on a new clinical system.

One was functional, ran on Oracle, did everything the hospital needed, but was character based using an older terminal interface. The staff had been using an early version of it and it met the needs for information gathering, etc., applicable to this organization.

The other was not functional, did not currently meet the needs of the organization, required more hardware, a revamp of the network, but used a Visual Basic front end and the gasps when the audience saw the help icon was a little bandaid…

Guess which one they picked?

 

[ChicknPickn]

Back in the 90s I had a manager who had a good story. He’d been at a launch for some Microsoft product.

Apparently the first thing the presenter, addressing a bunch of hardware vendors, told them was he’s going to make them all rich.

New software, what some used to call bloatware, requires more hardware to accomplish the same tasks the previous version did with less.

Licensing/support is just another tactic to force you into submission to stay current. In the work I do we’re legally required to be on currently supported versions of software, even if future or even current versions of that software do not exist, which means migration to other platforms at varying levels of sophistication.

IT is a racket. And at the same time, the public is prone to shiny new things.

I sat in a presentation to medical and senior administration staff at a hospital I worked at. They were deciding on a new clinical system.

One was functional, ran on Oracle, did everything the hospital needed, but was character based using an older terminal interface. The staff had been using an early version of it and it met the needs for information gathering, etc., applicable to this organization.

The other was not functional, did not currently meet the needs of the organization, required more hardware, a revamp of the network, but used a Visual Basic front end and the gasps when the audience saw the help icon was a little bandaid…

Guess which one they picked?

Indeed - - the upgrade spiral.

1) We now have the horsepower to run our software optimally. Whew! It was tough and a long slog, but we made it.

2) The vendor of our core system has just released a full version upgrade. Things are running slowly. Users are complaining.

3) Upgrade hardware.

4) We now have the horsepower to run our software optimally. Whew! It was tough and a long slog but we made it.

 

[oldunc]

I only follow this stuff peripherally (very), but it seems to me that Microsoft's entire business model was based on releasing a profoundly defective system and then selling an infinite series of patches and upgrades for it. A cynical view, but there are few things more cynical than a modern corporation.

 

[ChicknPickn]

I only follow this stuff peripherally (very), but it seems to me that Microsoft's entire business model was based on releasing a profoundly defective system and then selling an infinite series of patches and upgrades for it. A cynical view, but there are few things more cynical than a modern corporation.

As a former IT director, I can't say you're unjustified in that thinking.

I held a similar view.

"Pushing the envelope" is where the money is. And the misery, for the customer.