the ultimate fender tremolo

[nokaster]

i'm very interested in opinions on the tremolo circuits that can be found in fender amps. hence the question: which fender tremolo circuit do you like best?
in the poll you can choose an era. but i'm also interested in with amp model of that era you love.

this poll, these questions because i'm planning an amp build and i'm debating if i'd like an onboard tremolo. so any opinions on the different circuits are very welcome!

thx

 

[sjhusting]

The 3-tube 'harmonic vibrato' on the brown/blonde amps is best Fender, and second-best overall (Maggie is better, but more complex). But any bias-vary is darn good.

steven

 

[Big White Tele]

Vibro King

 

[PhatTele]

I agree...bias vary is the way to go. The blonde/brown eras sound great, but the one I use as a benchmark is the Princeton/Princeton Reverb tremolo....it's also easier to build. Scope out Doug Hoffman's layout for an AB763 circuit. Note how he's changed things a bit and is using a bias vary tremolo in his design. I've built it. It works...

(link removed)

 

[kiwi blue]

The 3-tube 'harmonic vibrato' on the brown/blonde amps is best Fender, and second-best overall (Maggie is better, but more complex). But any bias-vary is darn good.

steven

I have the 3-tube harmonic vibrato circuit in a 63 Super. Fantastic tremolo. I can't compare it with other amp tremolo circuits, but no tremolo pedal I've heard comes close to it.

 

[tazzboy]

I like them all.

 

[Mike Tank]

The 3-tube 'harmonic vibrato' on the brown/blonde amps is best Fender, and second-best overall (Maggie is better, but more complex).

What's a "Maggie"?

 

[sjhusting]

What's a "Maggie"?

Magnatone. Listen to anything from Lonnie Mack, for example, 'Wham!'

steven

 

[gaddis]

Categorizing the tremolos by era can be misleading. Different amp models have different tremolo circuits regardless of era. From my personal experiences, the Princeton Reverb has the best tremolo and the Twin Reverb has the worst. The modulation waveform in the twin is not a smooth waveform. I find this lack of smoothness to be very undesirable. The Princeton, on the other hand, has a perfectly smooth tremolo.

 

[Billm]

I agree that trying to tag tremolos by era is futile. The Princeton Reverb and the Deluxe Reverb, for instance, are both blackface, but the tremolo circuits are entirely different in operation and in sound.

Then you've got the Vibroverb with yet another circuit, which was also used in both the blackface and silverface Twin Reverb. But when Fender reissued the '65 Twin Reverb, they dropped the bias-vary tremolo in favor of the Deluxe Reverb's pre-PI tremolo.

The same circuit, give or take, is found in the silverface Vibrolux.

There are some other variants, some with a single section of a 12AX7 doing all the work, some with a full tube/two sections.

And, of course, there's the aforementioned harmonic vibrato, which shifts the frequency range as well as the intensity, almost like an auto-wah running at tremolo speed.

So it would be more useful to call out specific circuits or specific amps.

 

[surfoverb]

I've only tried 2, a 68 Dual Showman and a 65RI Twin and the Twin wins.

 

[PhatTele]

My amp tech mentor told me once "there's a lot of voodoo in vibrato" Over time, I've found that there's a lot of truth to to that statement. Two amps with essentially the same tremolo/vibrato circuit (e.g. 68 Dual Showman and 65RI Twin) should sound the same but they don't. You could even compare two 68 Dual Showmans and they'd sound different...tubes, caps, "voodoo"...who knows. Meanwhile, I think you can generalize them a bit by saying that the bias vary versions sound "round and warm" while the BF AB763 versions (with the optoisolator/"roach") sound "clippy or choppy" and the harmonic version has a warm, round, spacey sound. Each has it's place and you can find examples of great tunes using each of them. It really becomes a matter of taste. For instance, I love the sound of a Magnatone vibrato. However, it's too much for the tunes I'm playing...it gets in the way. So, I opt for the bias vary Princeton Reverb type sound which is subtler.

 

[gaddis]

.... But when Fender reissued the '65 Twin Reverb, they dropped the bias-vary tremolo in favor of the Deluxe Reverb's pre-PI tremolo. ......

I wasn't aware of that Bill. Why do you think they did that?

 

[woodman]

the tremolo on my brown Pro is pretty dang good ... but i rarely use it.

 

[Billm]

The bias-vary tremolo uses a few more parts and takes up more board space--that could be one reason. Or somebody could have just liked the sound of the DRRI's tremolo. At the time they did the reissue, I don't think Fender was building any amps with bias-vary tremolo. Maybe they forgot how.

 

[Walter Broes]

I like the opto-coupler tremolo as found in Blackface amps. The three tube "brown" circuit is great, a great sound, but in my experience it tends to get mushy and drowned out on stage, and it can be too subtle if you're really looking for "stutter".

 

[Twangntweed]

Bill, I wasn't aware of the change in the '65 Twin RI either, but at the time they also released the '63 Vibroverb RI which did have the tube bias tremolo. The Vibroverb was sadly discontinued a few years later due to poor sales and the fact that they could no longer get the Oxford speakers (which pretty much sucked anyway, just like in the real '63) but they used the same tremolo circuit in the Custom Vibrolux Reverb, which has remained in the line to this day.

I wasn't aware of the tremolo circuit in the original BF Twin, I assumed all the BF's but the Princeton and Vibrochamp used the photoresistor type, but a Twin Reverb would sure sound a lot better with the tube-biased trem.

The brown Vibroverb and brown/bf transistional Princeton are my favorite Fender trems hands down.

 

[Jef]

If you want to build it yourself, keep it simple! Building a three tube harmonic "vibrato" would be a real pain even though it sounds best.

If you want a bias vary tremolo (the sweetest, but sometimes a little weak) take a look at the Princeton Reverb schematic for a 6V6 amp (takes 1/2 of a 12AX7 tube)and I'd suggest the modern Custom Vibrolux Reverb trem for a really stable and quiet bias vary trem circuit for a 6L6 amp (uses both halves of a 12AX7 tube because it also has a buffer section). I like it better than the brown/BF Vibroverb version.

Then you've got the Vibroverb with yet another circuit, which was also used in both the blackface and silverface Twin Reverb. But when Fender reissued the '65 Twin Reverb, they dropped the bias-vary tremolo in favor of the Deluxe Reverb's pre-PI tremolo.

that's new to me... all the BF and SF Twin Reverbs that I've had on my bench had the opto trem.

If you want a BF/SF opto trem (sounds good, reliable, and more depth (stutter)), take a look at the Vibro King trem circuit.

At the moment I'm building an amp with the trem section from those old Silvertone/Danelectro amps which uses a 6AU6 miniature pentode oscillator.

Jef

 

[Billm]

Most of the tremolo circuits with the optoisolator affect the signal pre-PI; a few are post-PI. So not all opto circuits sound the same either.

 

[eddiewagner]

the trem on my pro reverb is awesome. very deep. i use it a lot.