"The Truth About Expensive Guitars That No One Wants To Admit"

[msalama]

You noticed correctly.

 

[Alaska Mike]

In March, in The Top 10 All Time Thread Subjects On TDPRI? thread, I posted:

My Inexpensive Guitar is Better Than Your Expensive Guitar- You people are idiots.

My Expensive Guitar is Better Than Your Inexpensive Guitar- You people are idiots.
____________________________________________

Still resonates.

 

[Geoff738]

Who are these people?

I hope you’re joking. In case you aren’t, here is Mr. Healey.

Cheers,
Geoff

 

[Geoff738]

I finally watched the video. While I am in general agreement with his larger point as I see it - that you can buy an inexpensive guitar that can rival (much) more expensive ones - I do disagree or find puzzling some of his talking points. Cheap pot metal. Really is a thing. Not difficult to look up, so I suggest he does. Its use/effect on guitar playability, tone etc. is I suppose a worthy topic of debate. The wood is wood is wood I also question. Places that sell fine woods don’t treat all woods as equal. I suppose again a worthy topic of debate, but I have my opinion, for what that’s worth.

Cheers,
Geoff

 

[Alaska Mike]

I finally watched the video. While I am in general agreement with his larger point as I see it - that you can buy an inexpensive guitar that can rival (much) more expensive ones - I do disagree or find puzzling some of his talking points. Cheap pot metal. Really is a thing. Not difficult to look up, so I suggest he does. Its use/effect on guitar playability, tone etc. is I suppose a worthy topic of debate. The wood is wood is wood I also question. Places that sell fine woods don’t treat all woods as equal. I suppose again a worthy topic of debate, but I have my opinion, for what that’s worth.

He started with a decent (and well-worn) thesis and then lost it as he elaborated.

Automation, outsourcing, and the global economy has changed guitar making forever.

You can find reliably great instruments that are also inexpensive (relative term). There are brands that build really nice stuff, with great features, from quality components for a very affordable price. If you don't care about logos (I do, but I'm shallow) and find the features/style/playing experience desirable, you can really save some money.

You are more likely to find serviceable guitars that are inexpensive. That is, compromises were made to bring the product to market and still make a reasonable profit. Woods, tuners, pickups, hardware, electronics... items that can be relatively easily replaced as desired. You may have a higher incidence of a dud (maybe due to materials used, maybe due to transoceanic shipping...) than with a more expensive guitar, but most often for the right player with the right skillset they can punch well above their (often considerable) weight.

You can also find guitars best not purchased. These I wouldn't call inexpensive. They are cheap. While perhaps not as bad as the offerings kids of my generation found in the Sears catalog, they are not instruments you can grow with even to the intermediate level. The are the inevitable result of the race to the bottom.

I cannot hammer this home enough- guitars are durable luxury goods. Nobody has to buy them.

As such, how much the instrument inspires you to continue playing is as (if not more) important than price. If you are equally inspired by a good inexpensive guitar as by a more expensive version, that's great and you can save a bunch of money. I try to steer people to solid, versatile instruments that match their interests/desires while not limiting their growth and continued enthusiasm. If spending a little more will result in a greater possibility of them sticking with the pursuit, I will always counsel that course (if their budget allows). To be honest, in this market I usually tell people to buy used (if they don't have a hang-up about it) to get greater value for their money. There are just far too many mint or excellent condition instruments out there in the post-boom world to justify creating new demand- especially at the low to mid-tier prices.

The rest of us nut-jobs can pursue our own niche guitar fetishes as much as our enthusiasm and budgets allow. We can get wrapped up in tone woods, types of finishes, neck carves, hardware, pickups... all without the consent of YouTube.

 

[sadfield]

Yes, it's nonsensical. All his waffle about materials being equal, and guitars not fitting his refrigerator analogy, just contradicts one off his main opening points. He says expensive guitars are a waste of money for beginner, intermediate players, excluding advanced players and rock gods. This indirectly makes the point that expensive guitars have some added quality that a lesser player can't utilise. Ergo expensive guitars are of higher quality than cheaper guitars. How can expensive and cheap guitars, be both the same and different? Why are they not a waste of money for everyone? He's an idiot who hasn't thought it through before hitting record. Sadly, some people attach to individual points rather than viewing the video as a whole.

 

[notmyusualuserid]

He started with a decent (and well-worn) thesis and then lost it as he elaborated.

Automation, outsourcing, and the global economy has changed guitar making forever.

You can find reliably great instruments that are also inexpensive (relative term). There are brands that build really nice stuff, with great features, from quality components for a very affordable price. If you don't care about logos (I do, but I'm shallow) and find the features/style/playing experience desirable, you can really save some money.

You are more likely to find serviceable guitars that are inexpensive. That is, compromises were made to bring the product to market and still make a reasonable profit. Woods, tuners, pickups, hardware, electronics... items that can be relatively easily replaced as desired. You may have a higher incidence of a dud (maybe due to materials used, maybe due to transoceanic shipping...) than with a more expensive guitar, but most often for the right player with the right skillset they can punch well above their (often considerable) weight.

You can also find guitars best not purchased. These I wouldn't call inexpensive. They are cheap. While perhaps not as bad as the offerings kids of my generation found in the Sears catalog, they are not instruments you can grow with even to the intermediate level. The are the inevitable result of the race to the bottom.

I cannot hammer this home enough- guitars are durable luxury goods. Nobody has to buy them.

As such, how much the instrument inspires you to continue playing is as (if not more) important than price. If you are equally inspired by a good inexpensive guitar as by a more expensive version, that's great and you can save a bunch of money. I try to steer people to solid, versatile instruments that match their interests/desires while not limiting their growth and continued enthusiasm. If spending a little more will result in a greater possibility of them sticking with the pursuit, I will always counsel that course (if their budget allows). To be honest, in this market I usually tell people to buy used (if they don't have a hang-up about it) to get greater value for their money. There are just far too many mint or excellent condition instruments out there in the post-boom world to justify creating new demand- especially at the low to mid-tier prices.

The rest of us nut-jobs can pursue our own niche guitar fetishes as much as our enthusiasm and budgets allow. We can get wrapped up in tone woods, types of finishes, neck carves, hardware, pickups... all without the consent of YouTube.

Interesting that you put forward trans-oceanic shipping as a reason for poorer quality.

How do you think MIA Fenders get to the rest of the world?

 

[telemnemonics]

I hope you’re joking. In case you aren’t, here is Mr. Healey.



View attachment 1390287

Cheers,
Geoff

Not sure if the “Who are these people?” Comment was sarcasm, but bears clarification.

The other thing that bears clarification when Jeff Healey is shown playing Squiers is that was old time MIJ Squier which was a great production vintage from FMIC.

Not sure what Squier Mayall played but nothing recent!

 

[telemnemonics]

Interesting that you put forward trans-oceanic shipping as a reason for poorer quality.

How do you think MIA Fenders get to the rest of the world?

Also remember: in Alaska they burn import guitars in the wood stove for heat.
Something about the 23 hour nights?

 

[Happy Enchilada]

Couple years ago I finally bought myself a genuine USA Hamer.
It's the artist model - looks like a double cutaway LP with f-holes (band name alert!).
It's gorgeous. Dark transparent red over flamey maple.
Plays like a dream. And not a single scratch, ding, or mark on it.
COA in the case in the original envelope it came in from the factory in 1998.
The only way to get one this immaculate involves time travel.

Alas, I can't bring myself to play it.
It might get scratched ...
So it languishes in its case.
I am working up the courage to list it on Reverb.
God knows, it's worth some dough.
Which I would inevitably use to purchase some other expensive toy ...

So in the meantime, I got the deal of a lifetime on a guitar that looks like it and plays great.
Some guy bought it new and then for some reason decided he didn't need it.
MSRP was $800 - and I got it for $400 plus tax and shipping.
It's a Guild Polara Deluxe, and I love it. It's not going anywhere anytime soon.

Live and learn. If you're lucky.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Interesting that you put forward trans-oceanic shipping as a reason for poorer quality.

How do you think MIA Fenders get to the rest of the world?

FMIC contracts Cortek well in advance for Squiers, ordering many shipping containers of guitars at a time. These come with no case or gig bag, and are placed in cardboard boxes. I think a lot of us have opened a box that was last closed in Indonesia or China. They... do the job. These cardboard boxes are then stacked in a container and eventually transferred to a container ship for a slow trip across one or more oceans. After unloading from the ship, the containers are trucked to a distribution point, unloaded, and stored in a warehouse until they are finally shipped (usually freight) to a retailer. During this time, the guitar has likely gone through several different climates, some of them potentially more to one extreme or the other. Given the end value of the item, none of this treatment is unwarranted.

A MIA Fender is a different proposition, purely based on value, so it will likely be handled in a different manner over a more compressed timeline. They are cased, which mitigates the effects of rapid environmental changes and provides additional protection. Packing material per unit is increased and more robust. Quantities are lower, and extended warehousing timelines are shorter. Remember how Fender warehoused the excess Squiers when all of those orders were cancelled at the end of the boom? That doesn't happen like that with production lines you directly control- especially when you are talking about relatively small numbers. At MIA prices, you aren't going to want to pay full retail for a guitar that was made a year or two earlier. With Squiers, people do it all the time.

We could also get into the materials the guitars themselves are made of and how they react to these influences during shipping, but you get the point.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Also remember: in Alaska they burn import guitars in the wood stove for heat.
Something about the 23 hour nights?

Nope. I don't want to breathe in whatever chemicals they made them with.

And right now the long days make firing the wood stove the furthest thing from my mind.

 

[brown2bob]

Not super famous, this woman from the Ettes played what looks like a Jay Turser to me

View attachment 1390107

I have a Jay Turser vintage series Strat that plays and sounds way better than it ought to for the price... I payed $150!

 

[Beachbum]

I'm constantly amazed about how much BS is out there in the world of guitar opinions.

 

[Alaska Mike]

Couple years ago I finally bought myself a genuine USA Hamer.
It's the artist model - looks like a double cutaway LP with f-holes (band name alert!).
It's gorgeous. Dark transparent red over flamey maple.
Plays like a dream. And not a single scratch, ding, or mark on it.
COA in the case in the original envelope it came in from the factory in 1998.
The only way to get one this immaculate involves time travel.

That Hamer is gorgeous, although it gives me more PRS vibes than Gibson (SG). Guitars are meant to be played, but I get your trepidation. It's one of the reasons I don't play in the vintage market. I have let go of more than a few guitars that were "too nice" to play.

 

[cyclopean]

I stand corrected…I could have sworn there was a Squier version of the Johnny Marr model.

The rest of my statement still stands.

I like that guitar but I’m not buying something that expensive. I’d wondered if I’d somehow missed an option.

 

[Happy Enchilada]

That Hamer is gorgeous, although it gives me more PRS vibes than Gibson (SG). Guitars are meant to be played, but I get your trepidation. It's one of the reasons I don't play in the vintage market. I have let go of more than a few guitars that were "too nice" to play.

That's one of the reasons I love Guilds - their slogan "Made to be Played," not "Made to be Displayed."
If I sell the Hamer, I might re-invest in a D55 - but it too may be "too nice to play." Bummer.
Guess I'll just have to keep strummin' my D40 and D140 ...

 

[tele12]

Spot on ...

The only thing he is spot on about is he gets more clicks when he bashes expensive guitars.
And it is only expensive American guitars he bashes, not expensive Mexican, Japanese or Indonesian guitars.

 

[Monoprice99]

I'll only say this: If you're paying more, you're usually paying for better hardware, such as fretwire too. I had a 2017 MIC Squier CV Tele for a year, and by the time I eventually kicked it out the door, the frets had divots so deep that it was practically unsalvageable. Whereas all my more expensive guitars? Not a trace of wear, or at worst very little - and yup, they were all played equally during that time.

Yeah, cheap guitars can be nice, per se, but as it comes to hardware and component quality, most are inferior. No way around it, because by and large, their manufacturers have to cut corners in order stay profitable. It's just the way it is.

That said though, I've also owned a couple of set neck Epiphones, and in general, they seem to hold up much better. So there're obviously differences between the brands, but then, Epis tend to be more expensive than Squiers, too. So it's the old dependency between the MSRP and quality again, isn't it?

PS. Lest I be taken as a complete naysayer here though, I do admit there're brands that seem to produce high quality without excessive overheads. One is Harley Benton, and their SS fretted guitars are indeed something I need to check out in order to see if they're as good as claimed. The one Cabronita clone of theirs I had for a short while definitely wasn't, but then I didn't have high expectations either since it sold for €199 new.

I can't attest to anyone's playing for normal or abusive play. Some folks are just harder on anything they own. The re-fret topic threads that I see that have dents/divots have mostly been the higher dollar guitars with non-stainless steel frets. The most affordable guitars it's cost prohibitive to refret when you can buy a comparably new neck or a complete guitar for less than what the re-fret prices for. I have a 2005 Squier Bullet SSS HT that has the original frets on it. That one is 20 years old. I've had it 6 of the 20 years and the frets are pretty much what they were 6 years ago. To my knowledge, it's never been leveled & crown prior to buying it preowned. I certainly haven't leveled & crowned it in the last 6 years. I must admit that I'm gentle on the guitars. I know when I bought it, the frets were the best part of the guitar, the last thing that needed repairs for. Toothpicks & glue, a neck pocket shim correction, it also cleaned up well.

 

[msalama]

@Monoprice99 -

I'm not particularly heavy-handed, yet said guitar was indeed cooked after just a year's play, so I decided to stick a fork in and call her done. Refret was out of the question, and buying a new neck for a guitar that heavy and unremarkable wasn't IMO particularly sensible either, so downstream she went and that was that.

Some Squier runs are known for soft frets, others are not, so I just got the short end ot the stick there. Too bad, but life goes on! Regardless, based on this experience alone I'm NOT keen on obtaining another one.

That's just me, though. YMMV etcetera, and that's of course all good too.