Rob DiStefano
Doctor of Teleocity
Spot on ...
"The Truth About Expensive Guitars That No One Wants To Admit"
- Thread starter Rob DiStefano
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I agree...except for 6:30 in the vid, "There's nothing vintage about the prices of these [modern vintage reissue] guitars."
Adjusted for inflation, the cost is about the same in most cases.
Adjusted for inflation, the cost is about the same in most cases.
arlum
Friend of Leo's
For use as a player I'd take a vintage reissue over a vintage guitar any day of the week. Everything's new, everything works and no one's gonna take me out to get it away from me. Also, if you stay with the production reissues I think their price is right in line with the times. Custom Shop prices, in my opinion, can be a different story. In some cases they're worth every penny but, quite often, I get the feeling the CS designation is the primary reason for their price.
Yes, I’m buying a brand. Off shore guitars are also a brand and life style. This is not a popular topic with me.
I buy practical stuff to gig with, and expensive, Custom Shop level stuff for home use.
I definitely do not need the more expensive guitars.
While not actively collecting for investment value, the nice, CS stuff holds it’s value well.
I buy it gently used.
At some point in the future, I’ll “divest” of the expensive stuff, and keep a few sentimental, and gig-worthy instruments.
I definitely do not need the more expensive guitars.
While not actively collecting for investment value, the nice, CS stuff holds it’s value well.
I buy it gently used.
At some point in the future, I’ll “divest” of the expensive stuff, and keep a few sentimental, and gig-worthy instruments.
Tele-friend
Tele-Afflicted
Partially agree with what he is saying. As a bedroom player I wouldnt need any of my Gibson and Fender guitars. Some cheaper alternatives would be perfectly fine. But at the same time for me, the guitars I have inspire me to play them everyday and they make me happy. And that is all that matters to me.
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kuch
Poster Extraordinaire
I've owned a Porsche for years..... not for the name or image......
Alaska Mike
Tele-Afflicted
There's a lot of stuff I agree about in there and a lot of stuff I disagree with.
The guitar you buy should be the one that inspires you to play more. If you can afford it and it inspires you to grab it every waking moment, buy that one. You don't have to buy a guitar. These are durable luxury consumer goods. Your level of luxury is just that- yours.
Generally speaking, higher prices (to a certain level) get you better woods (and lighter examples of those woods), better hardware, and better hand-finishing. CNC machines don't care where their located and the nationality of the operator, but price tiers often dictate the quality of the raw materials and time aloted to each unit.
Fender and Gibson (and to a lesser degree, PRS) are legacy brands and their real assets are their heritage. Stickers and logos. The IP ship sailed a long time ago. They still make good instruments, but their upcharge is all about legacy. People will pay more because of the history of the logo, and they will do anything to maintain that status quo. Even their secondary marques have significant brand value that adds to the price.
Every single guitar building company would love to charge what Fender and Gibson charge. The market will not support it. Those that try (even with superior instruments) almost invariably fail. There's a lot of human nature, superstition, tradition, and other stuff tied up in the guitar market that defy logic. It's one of the cool things about the whole experience.
All that said, you don't have to spend a lot to have an exceptional instrument these days. The unplayable $99 guitar of my youth adjusted for inflation would get you an excellent guitar today from any number of brands.
I completely admit I am a complete Fender fan-boy (up to a certain price-point). My tastes have been refined by over four decades of indoctrination and hands-on experience. I have owned and/or played literally thousands of guitars from all sorts of manufacturers, but the ones that stick have mostly been from Fender. I criticize the company often and very rarely buy anything new from them anymore (other than parts), and when I do buy new I avoid paying retail/MAP like it is my religion. I swap parts constantly to adjust for taste and rarely care about "purity". However, this particular legacy brand resonates with me and inspires me to play more. Maybe not better, but more.
Other people are inspired by other brands, models, shapes... I completely respect that. It's all about the right instrument for that particular individual. You don't have to spend a lot, but sometimes that is the best option to get the best result. Not bang-for-your-buck, but simply the best result.
The guitar you buy should be the one that inspires you to play more. If you can afford it and it inspires you to grab it every waking moment, buy that one. You don't have to buy a guitar. These are durable luxury consumer goods. Your level of luxury is just that- yours.
Generally speaking, higher prices (to a certain level) get you better woods (and lighter examples of those woods), better hardware, and better hand-finishing. CNC machines don't care where their located and the nationality of the operator, but price tiers often dictate the quality of the raw materials and time aloted to each unit.
Fender and Gibson (and to a lesser degree, PRS) are legacy brands and their real assets are their heritage. Stickers and logos. The IP ship sailed a long time ago. They still make good instruments, but their upcharge is all about legacy. People will pay more because of the history of the logo, and they will do anything to maintain that status quo. Even their secondary marques have significant brand value that adds to the price.
Every single guitar building company would love to charge what Fender and Gibson charge. The market will not support it. Those that try (even with superior instruments) almost invariably fail. There's a lot of human nature, superstition, tradition, and other stuff tied up in the guitar market that defy logic. It's one of the cool things about the whole experience.
All that said, you don't have to spend a lot to have an exceptional instrument these days. The unplayable $99 guitar of my youth adjusted for inflation would get you an excellent guitar today from any number of brands.
I completely admit I am a complete Fender fan-boy (up to a certain price-point). My tastes have been refined by over four decades of indoctrination and hands-on experience. I have owned and/or played literally thousands of guitars from all sorts of manufacturers, but the ones that stick have mostly been from Fender. I criticize the company often and very rarely buy anything new from them anymore (other than parts), and when I do buy new I avoid paying retail/MAP like it is my religion. I swap parts constantly to adjust for taste and rarely care about "purity". However, this particular legacy brand resonates with me and inspires me to play more. Maybe not better, but more.
Other people are inspired by other brands, models, shapes... I completely respect that. It's all about the right instrument for that particular individual. You don't have to spend a lot, but sometimes that is the best option to get the best result. Not bang-for-your-buck, but simply the best result.
memorex
Poster Extraordinaire
I could care less about this topic anymore. I sold all my old Gibsons that I bought back in the 70's for an exceptional buck. I wouldn't buy any new ones at current prices. My current #1 player is an SX STL50 Nashville clone that I bought for $110. I replaced the neck with a low end Musikraft neck ($260). I'm very pleased with the way it plays. Do I care what anyone else thinks? You already know the answer.
Harmonic
Tele-Meister
What I really need is an expensive amp. Well not too expensive.
Geoff738
Doctor of Teleocity
Oops. Meant to reply to a different thread. So, ignore this!
Cheers,
Geoff
Cheers,
Geoff
Well consider that if he makes these videos because they are successful, he cant also say “nobody wants to hear (the truth) about “expensive vs cheap alternatives”.
I don’t buy either option!
Goldilocks says $888 is plenty!
I don’t buy either option!
Goldilocks says $888 is plenty!
sadfield
Tele-Afflicted
I love the never ending supply of contradictions on this forum.
"Regardless of what guitar I play, I always sound like me", but.....but....."tone isn't in the fingers".
As for that video, it's a mess. Choosing a Heritage over a Gibson because they are made in Kalamazoo, rather than having a big name on the headstock, is exactly the same thing. Starting a new company in 1985 and calling it Heritage is ironic in itself, and trading on an image, it could not be more of a lifestyle brand. With lifestyle brands, it cuts both ways, the cheaper brands play on all the same tricks of fostering an emotional connection, community building and identity as the big brands. Proclaiming your purchasing choices is portraying a lifestyle. When he tells you he actively avoided the big brands, then he's making a statement about his lifestyle.
He makes the point that buying a non-US guitar doesn't contribute to the decline of American manufacturing, then later goes on to say American guitar worker's aren't payed a living wage, perhaps there is a correlation.
His most popular videos are the ones comparing cheap to expensive guitars. Well? Why is that? Simple, people looking for confirmation on their choice of purchase. So, he's bound to be right, if that's the opinion you are looking for. He has a vested interest in providing you with the "truth" you want.
The truth about expensive guitars? There are multiple, valid and personal truths.
The truth about Youtube, is it is geared to tell you what you already think.
"Regardless of what guitar I play, I always sound like me", but.....but....."tone isn't in the fingers".
As for that video, it's a mess. Choosing a Heritage over a Gibson because they are made in Kalamazoo, rather than having a big name on the headstock, is exactly the same thing. Starting a new company in 1985 and calling it Heritage is ironic in itself, and trading on an image, it could not be more of a lifestyle brand. With lifestyle brands, it cuts both ways, the cheaper brands play on all the same tricks of fostering an emotional connection, community building and identity as the big brands. Proclaiming your purchasing choices is portraying a lifestyle. When he tells you he actively avoided the big brands, then he's making a statement about his lifestyle.
He makes the point that buying a non-US guitar doesn't contribute to the decline of American manufacturing, then later goes on to say American guitar worker's aren't payed a living wage, perhaps there is a correlation.
His most popular videos are the ones comparing cheap to expensive guitars. Well? Why is that? Simple, people looking for confirmation on their choice of purchase. So, he's bound to be right, if that's the opinion you are looking for. He has a vested interest in providing you with the "truth" you want.
The truth about expensive guitars? There are multiple, valid and personal truths.
The truth about Youtube, is it is geared to tell you what you already think.
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GRAVITY-LHP
Tele-Holic
(I believe) What guitar is best to a person is determined by a their sensibility and level of pragmatism. It’s really that simple. There is no “truth” to what this guys is saying. He just being provocative to get subscribers and likes.
I accept guitars as more than just tools for the job.
I accept guitars as more than just tools for the job.
Grandfunkfan
Friend of Leo's
The vintage thing is a joke. Sounds really cool, but guitars are better than they were 60 or 70 years ago. Anybody want a tele with a useless neck pickup or a strat with a 3 way switch. Fender vintage style amps the 65s and 68s don't have a mid adjustment and they really need one. Why do you think tube screamers are so popular? The other thing they lack is a master volume. Vintage stuff is a marketing gimmick. I like the idea of old school craftsmanship and hand built, etc, but the reality is modern guitars, pickups, and amps are miles ahead of the vintage stuff.
LOSTVENTURE
Friend of Leo's
The player/guitar relationship is a persona experience. Price points and brand names are secondary to how we react to certain models. Once you have a little experience playing, determine your style and what you want to do with the guitar, you have prepared yourself for the search for your personal instrument. And that opportunity is one that only you can fulfill.
While the internet is overwhelmed with guitar forums, YT videos, and commercials, it's up to each player to determine his personal needs.
One warning: That search can take a lifetime.
While the internet is overwhelmed with guitar forums, YT videos, and commercials, it's up to each player to determine his personal needs.
One warning: That search can take a lifetime.
“The Truth No One Wants To Admit”
…is a dead horse that gets beaten on YouTube at least 100 times a week.
…is a dead horse that gets beaten on YouTube at least 100 times a week.
Happy Enchilada
Poster Extraordinaire
I own a few acoustic guitars.
Guild D40 Traditional that practically jumped off the wall and begged me to bring it home it sounded so good and which I got for less than $2K.
Guild D140 (indonesian) that I traded some gear for (MSRP $799).
Guild F55 that I waited two and a half years for when Ren Ferguson took over Guild.
And a Teton dread that cost me less than $300 new.
While I love them all for their own special qualities, the Teton goes through more strings than the rest combined, which is why it has D'Addario trimlock tuners.
And the F55 - the most valuable of the lot by a long shot - mostly gets played by my son every couple weeks when he comes over. Good thing, because it'll be his someday.
Point is that in the long run, the price of a guitar or the prestige/cachet/etc. means less to me than the practical hands-on durability and playability. I'd never get rid of the pricey boxes, but I'll continue to play the heck out of the D140 and the Teton.
Guild D40 Traditional that practically jumped off the wall and begged me to bring it home it sounded so good and which I got for less than $2K.
Guild D140 (indonesian) that I traded some gear for (MSRP $799).
Guild F55 that I waited two and a half years for when Ren Ferguson took over Guild.
And a Teton dread that cost me less than $300 new.
While I love them all for their own special qualities, the Teton goes through more strings than the rest combined, which is why it has D'Addario trimlock tuners.
And the F55 - the most valuable of the lot by a long shot - mostly gets played by my son every couple weeks when he comes over. Good thing, because it'll be his someday.
Point is that in the long run, the price of a guitar or the prestige/cachet/etc. means less to me than the practical hands-on durability and playability. I'd never get rid of the pricey boxes, but I'll continue to play the heck out of the D140 and the Teton.
Mikie47165
Tele-Meister
The only thing i take issue with, is what he said about the steel used in cheap versus expensive guitars.
Prime example is those generic import Floyd rose style vibratos. A quality FR is made of hardened steel that last.
I have seen the cheap import ones with the pivot points chewed up like a great white shark was on it due to being subjected too Halen style dive bombs and it only takes about a month of everyday playing for those things to turn to c*@&. And i have seen twisted necks and glue joints come apart on bodys.
Prime example is those generic import Floyd rose style vibratos. A quality FR is made of hardened steel that last.
I have seen the cheap import ones with the pivot points chewed up like a great white shark was on it due to being subjected too Halen style dive bombs and it only takes about a month of everyday playing for those things to turn to c*@&. And i have seen twisted necks and glue joints come apart on bodys.
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