The Strat that wouldn't cooperate

David Barnett

Doctor of Teleocity
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
19,186
Age
66
Location
The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
A few years ago I built a partscaster Strat, using a Fender MIM Classic 50s Lacquer neck, an MJT body finished in Mary Kaye blonde, Callaham hardware kit, and a set of Fender CS 54 pickups. When I had it all screwed together, I took it to a local shop to have the nut cut and a setup.

When I picked the guitar up, the low E was almost falling off the side of the neck. Now, I can be a meek beta sometimes, and I don't like to complain. Rather than complain, I'll just never go back. So after a while I took the guitar to another shop in a nearby town, pointed out the flaws in the setup and asked for a new nut. When I picked up the guitar, the strings were still way off-center.

So after another while I drove to Memphis and took the Strat to a "guitar spa". The guy there said I had the wrong bridge on the guitar, it had a 2 7/32" bridge and he claimed I needed a 2 1/16" one. Fortunately Callaham makes a bridge with 2 1/16" string spacing that fits on a guitar drilled for 2 7/32" spacing on the pivot screws, so we got one of those and swapped it in, plus another new nut and setup.

When I picked it up, all the strings were perfectly evenly spaced across the fingerboard, with nothing falling off either edge. The guitar played well enough for them to bum-rush me out of the store as quickly as possible. When I got it home I realized the float on the bridge was all messed up, he had screwed down the pivot screws too far and the trem would barely move. When I adjusted the pivot screws properly, the float and action were way out of whack and I had to go through the whole balancing act of trying to get string tension and spring tension just right, and then adjust all the saddle heights.

I finally got it somewhat playable, and it sat on a guitar stand for a couple of years where I proceeded to ignore it and always pick up something else. One day I picked it up and decided it was unplayable to me because the strings were too close together. After a few cursory measurements, I determined that there was no reason why this guitar should require the narrow string spacing, and I ordered a Fender American Vintage trem rig.

When the new bridge arrived, first thing I noticed was that the trem arm wouldn't screw into the block. Neither would my Callaham arm. Comparing the two arms, it was clear they were different diameters, with different thread pitches, and both were the wrong one for the threads in the block. After a deep internet dive into Strat trem minutiae, I learned that there are three possible threads on a Fender Strat - 10/32, M5, or M6, depending on whether it was made in the US, Mexico, or Japan. My box had a "Made in China" sticker... I went to the hardware store and bought one nut and one bolt in each of the three sizes. I could easily thread a 10/32 nut onto the Callaham bar, and the 10/32 bolt would go right into the Callaham block. Neither the M5 nor M6 nut would thread onto the Fender bar; the M5 would go on a turn or two before it seemed like it would crossthread. And neither an M5 nor M6 bolt would screw into the trem block. I went to a local shop to see if they had a Strat trem bar that would fit the block, we went through a large box of old bars and finally found ONE that was a perfect fit. But it was short and black, very "80s Metal". Not really the right look for a '50s type Strat. I could thread the M5 nut onto the black bar just fine, even though an M5 bolt wouldn't go into the block.

So I ordered a US-style block from Fender's online store. When it arrived, it was indeed a proper 10/32 one. So I installed the new bridge on the guitar. After much fiddling I got the float where I wanted it, and got the action and intonation roughed in pretty well. The guitar is now playable! But the Callaham trem bar is all wrong, it fits the block but the bend angles put it in an uncomfortably obtrusive place, so it's a trip to GC for an American Vintage style Strat trem bar. The only one in the store was behind the counter in the guitar maintenance kiosk, and the maintenance guy was gone for the day. It took a lot of wheedling and trying to reason with GC sales droids before someone would finally get on the phone to the store manager and get permission to sell it to me. But it fits. And I finally have a working Stratocaster, although it needs a little fine-tuning on the saddle heights and probably needs yet another new nut. I could have a garage sale with all the spare Strat parts...
 

David Barnett

Doctor of Teleocity
Ad Free Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Posts
19,186
Age
66
Location
The Far-Flung Isles of Langerhans
One thing I've noticed is that I prefer the Fender vibrato to the Callaham. Must be something to do with the precision of the bearing edge, I find it easier to do more subtle wiggling with the Fender, like a gentle Bigsby wobble, with the Callaham even the slightest pressure would be heading toward dive-bomb territory. It's a case of something being better made and more precise doesn't necessarily make it "better".
 

boop

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Posts
799
Location
Massachusetts
Reading through your saga, I don’t know how you live to tell this tale. I might have considered ending it all at some point if it were me. I tried briefly to set up my mim strat floating, but it was clearly just a pipe dream so I cranked down the springs and decked it.
 

Skydog1010

Friend of Leo's
Gold Supporter
Joined
Apr 20, 2019
Posts
3,689
Age
69
Location
Old Dominion
When I talk about Strat spare parts, I talk in terms of pounds or kilos, which ever may mesh with the person I'm speaking with.

When I talk about a Strat build with all parts delivered, I speak in terms of a couple weeks at minimum.

Changes- that require a complete and thorough setup, I allow 20 hours for completed project.

String size change, 2 hours minimum, but the setup will perform for a few years with minor tweaks.

Stratocasters are labor intensive guitars, but they sound so good.
 

marc2211

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Jan 30, 2018
Posts
1,568
Age
45
Location
Switzerland/France
It’s funny, I have a MIJ 1993 Strat (ST54) that I’ve had for 25+ years. In that time it had a set up when I bought it (blocked trem), and it was never touched until 18 years later when it had a refret! The neck never moved, it kept intonation - I’d suspect as it’s a thick V one piece Maple.

I needed a new bone nut as the old one snapped (!) about 8 years ago, but it was cut identically to the old one and just worked.

I finally changed the string height last week as it was never quite right after the refret in 2020, but it’s the only thing I’ve ever done to it set up wise in a quarter of a century! ><

All my other guitars need seasonal tweaks, this one is just solid.
 

Toto'sDad

Tele Axpert
Ad Free Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Posts
61,941
Location
Bakersfield
A few years ago I built a partscaster Strat, using a Fender MIM Classic 50s Lacquer neck, an MJT body finished in Mary Kaye blonde, Callaham hardware kit, and a set of Fender CS 54 pickups. When I had it all screwed together, I took it to a local shop to have the nut cut and a setup.

When I picked the guitar up, the low E was almost falling off the side of the neck. Now, I can be a meek beta sometimes, and I don't like to complain. Rather than complain, I'll just never go back. So after a while I took the guitar to another shop in a nearby town, pointed out the flaws in the setup and asked for a new nut. When I picked up the guitar, the strings were still way off-center.

So after another while I drove to Memphis and took the Strat to a "guitar spa". The guy there said I had the wrong bridge on the guitar, it had a 2 7/32" bridge and he claimed I needed a 2 1/16" one. Fortunately Callaham makes a bridge with 2 1/16" string spacing that fits on a guitar drilled for 2 7/32" spacing on the pivot screws, so we got one of those and swapped it in, plus another new nut and setup.

When I picked it up, all the strings were perfectly evenly spaced across the fingerboard, with nothing falling off either edge. The guitar played well enough for them to bum-rush me out of the store as quickly as possible. When I got it home I realized the float on the bridge was all messed up, he had screwed down the pivot screws too far and the trem would barely move. When I adjusted the pivot screws properly, the float and action were way out of whack and I had to go through the whole balancing act of trying to get string tension and spring tension just right, and then adjust all the saddle heights.

I finally got it somewhat playable, and it sat on a guitar stand for a couple of years where I proceeded to ignore it and always pick up something else. One day I picked it up and decided it was unplayable to me because the strings were too close together. After a few cursory measurements, I determined that there was no reason why this guitar should require the narrow string spacing, and I ordered a Fender American Vintage trem rig.

When the new bridge arrived, first thing I noticed was that the trem arm wouldn't screw into the block. Neither would my Callaham arm. Comparing the two arms, it was clear they were different diameters, with different thread pitches, and both were the wrong one for the threads in the block. After a deep internet dive into Strat trem minutiae, I learned that there are three possible threads on a Fender Strat - 10/32, M5, or M6, depending on whether it was made in the US, Mexico, or Japan. My box had a "Made in China" sticker... I went to the hardware store and bought one nut and one bolt in each of the three sizes. I could easily thread a 10/32 nut onto the Callaham bar, and the 10/32 bolt would go right into the Callaham block. Neither the M5 nor M6 nut would thread onto the Fender bar; the M5 would go on a turn or two before it seemed like it would crossthread. And neither an M5 nor M6 bolt would screw into the trem block. I went to a local shop to see if they had a Strat trem bar that would fit the block, we went through a large box of old bars and finally found ONE that was a perfect fit. But it was short and black, very "80s Metal". Not really the right look for a '50s type Strat. I could thread the M5 nut onto the black bar just fine, even though an M5 bolt wouldn't go into the block.

So I ordered a US-style block from Fender's online store. When it arrived, it was indeed a proper 10/32 one. So I installed the new bridge on the guitar. After much fiddling I got the float where I wanted it, and got the action and intonation roughed in pretty well. The guitar is now playable! But the Callaham trem bar is all wrong, it fits the block but the bend angles put it in an uncomfortably obtrusive place, so it's a trip to GC for an American Vintage style Strat trem bar. The only one in the store was behind the counter in the guitar maintenance kiosk, and the maintenance guy was gone for the day. It took a lot of wheedling and trying to reason with GC sales droids before someone would finally get on the phone to the store manager and get permission to sell it to me. But it fits. And I finally have a working Stratocaster, although it needs a little fine-tuning on the saddle heights and probably needs yet another new nut. I could have a garage sale with all the spare Strat parts...
One certainly can't fault you for giving up too easily that's for sure! I hope you get it sorted out, and finally to your satisfaction. I would just buy a blank nut and cut it myself. Getting a nut just right sometimes takes a long, long time. I have a Martin guitar that I've been fiddling with the nut forever, and only in the last couple of years has it finally come to suit me.
 

mtglick

TDPRI Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Posts
91
Age
48
Location
LA-ish
I could have a garage sale with all the spare Strat parts...
I feel you. This is how I ended up, over 20 years of hobby building, with five times more complete instruments than I have family members, and twice as many projects waiting for parts, time, inspiration, or boredom (or all four). Every time I start a project, I end up with three guitars out of it. I once bought a project guitar because it came in the case I needed for another guitar. Just having that black, short trem bar would send me hunting for a trem that it fits, for a guitar that I probably don't have--would probably end up finding a way to put an early 80's superstrat together just to use it (which, btw, are fun builds--there's still NOS, period-correct aftermarket stuff out there). Partly, it's a waste-not, want-not mentality, but also a little bit of hoarder. These are not mutually incompatible, but both are incompatible with suburban home sizes.
Not that it would have cured everything, but the experience you had is the reason I splurged on luthier’s tools 20 or 25 years ago.
Agreed, but every time I buy a tool to finish a project, I end up scouring the internet looking for more parts the tool will help me fix, which just contributes to the first problem. I just finished doing my first US Strat truss rod nut replacement, for a neck that I bought to replace a neck that I took off a project that'd I'd built, but I wanted that neck for a different guitar. The new neck had a stripped nut, and I bought the Stewmac gripper wrench, but it didn't really help much--actually ended up using a long Torx bit to get the old nut off, which broke one of the LSR nut screws (because, like an idiot, once I got the truss rod nut moving I forgot to take the LSR off). So I bought a new LSR nut, just for one of the screws. And now I have most of a spare LSR nut setup, and this nifty gripper wrench...sigh. The struggle is real.
.
 

58Bassman

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Posts
868
Location
Milwaukee area
The possibility of coming back with a guitar because the strings were falling off of the edge would make me not even leave because I would have seen it in the shop. Any work done needs to be verified IN the shop. If the person has a problem with that, too bad- you paid your money, they need to make it right.

If buying a guitar and doing the setup, use a string and tape it to the headstock at the midpoint between the nut slots for the D & G strings, as well as at the centerline of the body at the lower end of the body. If the string doesn't pass directly over dead center of the highest fret, the neck isn't set correctly. If the string doesn't pass directly over the centerpoint between the D & G bridge saddles when it's centered on the body and neck, the bridge needs to be moved. Ditto WRT the pickups.
 

58Bassman

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Posts
868
Location
Milwaukee area
I feel you. This is how I ended up, over 20 years of hobby building, with five times more complete instruments than I have family members, and twice as many projects waiting for parts, time, inspiration, or boredom (or all four). Every time I start a project, I end up with three guitars out of it. I once bought a project guitar because it came in the case I needed for another guitar. Just having that black, short trem bar would send me hunting for a trem that it fits, for a guitar that I probably don't have--would probably end up finding a way to put an early 80's superstrat together just to use it (which, btw, are fun builds--there's still NOS, period-correct aftermarket stuff out there). Partly, it's a waste-not, want-not mentality, but also a little bit of hoarder. These are not mutually incompatible, but both are incompatible with suburban home sizes.

Agreed, but every time I buy a tool to finish a project, I end up scouring the internet looking for more parts the tool will help me fix, which just contributes to the first problem. I just finished doing my first US Strat truss rod nut replacement, for a neck that I bought to replace a neck that I took off a project that'd I'd built, but I wanted that neck for a different guitar. The new neck had a stripped nut, and I bought the Stewmac gripper wrench, but it didn't really help much--actually ended up using a long Torx bit to get the old nut off, which broke one of the LSR nut screws (because, like an idiot, once I got the truss rod nut moving I forgot to take the LSR off). So I bought a new LSR nut, just for one of the screws. And now I have most of a spare LSR nut setup, and this nifty gripper wrench...sigh. The struggle is real.
.
The struggle is real, but you have a spare LSR nut and that counts for something.

I really liked the LSR parts on my Strat Plus. Great hardware.
 

Peegoo

Doctor of Teleocity
Ad Free Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2019
Posts
18,467
Location
Beast of Bourbon
Sounds like a nightmare of epic proportions.

Perhaps it should be a film.

wHoAmlkJ_o.jpg
 

mtglick

TDPRI Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Posts
91
Age
48
Location
LA-ish
The struggle is real, but you have a spare LSR nut and that counts for something.

I really liked the LSR parts on my Strat Plus. Great hardware.
Completely agree. But now I have to find a screw for it. And a neck, unless I just widen the slot on one of my other projects. I have a file the right size, and I got a couple Strat bodies but I wonder how an LSR would fit with a Floyd...gonna need a nice set of tuners. A humbucker might be fun...I think I have something high output in the parts pile...wonder if that'll work...will need to match it up with a couple high output single coils, or at least single coil size...sigh.
 

58Bassman

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Posts
868
Location
Milwaukee area
Completely agree. But now I have to find a screw for it. And a neck, unless I just widen the slot on one of my other projects. I have a file the right size, and I got a couple Strat bodies but I wonder how an LSR would fit with a Floyd...gonna need a nice set of tuners. A humbucker might be fun...I think I have something high output in the parts pile...wonder if that'll work...will need to match it up with a couple high output single coils, or at least single coil size...sigh.

If the screw shank is still in the neck, you may be able to find a small screw extractor like the one in the photo. If you can't find anything so small, you could use a piece of 1/8" diameter tube and file some teeth into the end.

1678980234164.png
 

schmee

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Posts
24,022
Location
northwest
I just cant do the wide string spacing. The high E is always rolling off the neck. I convert everything to 2-1/16" spacing.

I have a Callaham block on the Fender bridge, installed probably at least 15 years ago. The Callaham block/arm is the only one I've had which the arm is not wobbly in. The spring in the bottom does pretty much nothing to solve a wobbly arm.
 

Blazer

Doctor of Teleocity
Ad Free Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2003
Posts
17,925
Age
46
Location
The Netherlands
Eh, reading all of that brings back memories.

Debbie.jpg

This is my strat that wouldn't cooperate. Named her "Debbie" as she had the prettiest flowing wood structure in her ash body you ever saw.

But as pretty as she was, it was all offset by how terrible she sounded. I tried different pickups, Dimarzio, Seymour Duncans, but she just never sounded good, very bland, no personality whatsoever.

The worst thing was that when I used her with the band, you simply couldn't hear her, it was the strangest thing, as soon as I plugged in everything was fine but when the rest of the band joined in, the sound was just GONE.

So, getting the hint that no matter what I did, Debbie was never going to sound good, I decided she wasn't worth the effort and sold her. She since has popped up on the online market place a couple of times as more are finding out that she's just a bad sounding strat.
 

Lies&Distortion

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
May 27, 2014
Posts
1,771
Location
SE Michigan
I put a Callaham bridge on a MIM strat and set it up floating, following the guy who has a video about it (who's name I don't feel like looking up). I liked it enough that when I bought a new MIA Strat in 2019 I put a Callaham on it as well. I like it even more. Vintage style with 6 screws.
 

takauya

Tele-Holic
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Posts
518
Location
Forest
Does anybody know why Leo Fender used 11.3mm for Strat bridge spacing? Tele's 10.8 spacing is perfect for Fender neck width. Yes, 11.3mm is great for finger picking and I love it, but then why he didn't widen the neck width?
Anyway, what Fender needs to do for correct the issue is to use the Tele's 10.8mm spacing for their narrow spacing trem, and sure enough they use 10.5mm Gibson spacing instead. 😭
Thankfully, Gotoh is making 10.8 vintage trem though!
 
Top