The secret punch on TV and in movies

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by verb boten, Jul 6, 2019.

  1. strat56

    strat56 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    A roll of nickels in your fist.
     
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  2. Charlie Bernstein

    Charlie Bernstein Poster Extraordinaire

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    Oops. Sorry. I thought you were asking a straight question.

    Never mind!
     
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  3. Charlie Bernstein

    Charlie Bernstein Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yup, haven't watched the whole thing, but I'm sure they all did.

    That's pretty much how I'd react to someone who accosted me that way. Wouldn't throw a punch (I've been punched; it sucks), but I'd be pretty damn annoyed.

    What a lame way to treat an astronaut. Or anyone. Some folks are so lonely and befuddled that they'll do almost anything to get attention.

    At least he didn't go shoot up a school.
     
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  4. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    I know from observation that drastic pain and damage does not equal a knockout. The brain has to slosh up against the side or back of the skull, or a large blood vessel has to be pinched enough to interrupt blood flow to the brain. Some individuals are put together in a way that makes these two conditions difficult to achieve ... they are very hard to knock out.

    Usually it's due to some abnormality of the skull or the cerebrospinal fluid that grants them super-normal resistance to being rendered unconscious. Also, particularly thick neck muscles (or a very short, thick neck) can protect someone from vertebral and carotid artery occlusion. There are folks that are very hard to choke out.
     
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  5. Stringbanger

    Stringbanger Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I’m certainly not Steven Seagal, but I’ve been reading up on aikido (not practicing). The main thrust of aikido is non-aggression. You use the aggressor’s energy to subdue him. The main focus is that no one gets hurt, yet you diffuse a potentially violent situation.

    The training, to me, seems very intense. There are a lot of split-second assessments about a would-be attacker’s plan of attack. Does he have a weapon? Is he street-wise, or just an amateur? Does he intend to injure, or is he just messing with you?

    Very interesting martial art form!

    Alright, now back to to the slugging.:D
     
  6. kbold

    kbold Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Aikido techniques are based on disarming an opponent who's holding a very sharp samurai sword. So, intense and focussed is helpful in such a situation.
     
  7. verb boten

    verb boten Tele-Holic

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    Interesting.
    This makes me wonder if those who are not easily knocked out would also have a lot of resistance to being put under for medical reasons? Or completely unrelated?
     
  8. Solrac Kai

    Solrac Kai Tele-Holic

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    Don't waste your time unless your goal is to just do it as a form of exercise. If you want to learn self defense train, boxing, jujitsu, wrestling. Akido does not work for self defense because all the techniques are trained with non resisting opponent and in a real fight non of the moves you train work against an opponent that will resist you.
     
  9. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    No, I think it's about the thickness of the skull, the density of the cerebrospinal fluid, the strength of the neck muscles. I had a room-mate in Reno back in the day ... he'd get hit by a pool cue or a barstool ... in the head. He laughed it off, then pulverized the three or four guys he had picked a fight with. I never saw him get knocked out ... seen him get hit in the jaw a hundred times, never went down. He'd been a semi-pro football player and a Texas sheriff, I guess he had some experience in street fights.
     
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  10. Solrac Kai

    Solrac Kai Tele-Holic

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    From my experience, there is no secret. Hit the chin or temple and with enough force to make the head twist and snap, lights out. Sure learning how to throw a punch using your footwork, hips, straight from the shoulder, elbow up, turning over your wrist and making sure the top part of the fist is in line with the wrist and not being bent at impact makes for an efficient powerful punch while preserving stamina is ideal for a boxer/MMA fighter. But I've seen ugly punches knock people out too, those videos are all over the internet.
    Want to lower your chances of getting knocked out, keep your chin tucked into you chest, and hands up.imagine you have eyes at the top of your forehead and that's how you look at your opponent, that posture will keep your chin tucked
     
  11. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    We have a problem here in Oz with what we call a "coward punch' where an innocent guy gets hit, often by a drunk or drugged guy, for nothing. Result- death in many cases.
    Judges are going very harshly on this.
    Any other place s experiencing this?
     
  12. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    I attended the dojo where Segal studied Aikido in Santa Ana, Ca for a few years ... about three years after Segal moved on, I believe he went to Japan. Of course, everybody was still talking about him. He is a huge guy, 6'5" I think, and enormously strong. Aikido is like Judo ... you don't learn it to fight, it's Art form and a Sport of sorts. It's not about fighting. But, if you give Aikido skills ... throws, joint locks, deflections, distractions ... if you give those skills to a big strong guy who has been in lots of fights, that person will be a formidable opponent to everybody except upper level boxers, wrestlers, and champion Mixed Martial Arts competitors. The average tough guy in the bar will get destroyed, because it's not about the "style", it's about the person who learns the style. A big, strong, coordinated guy who likes to get in fights plus Aikido (or Judo) will tie you in knots long before you get him on the ground for your Gracie techniques.
     
  13. Solrac Kai

    Solrac Kai Tele-Holic

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    Hi Strat, I would agree with you if you were just talking about Judo, they do live sparring all the time. The Uke-Nage of Aikido removes the active resistance that is key to learning self defense. I have seen Aikido black belts get soundly defeated by mid level jujitsu players. There an axiom I've heard again and again over the last ten years from my professor, you fight like you train. If I train with a partner that I know is going to let me throw him and attack in an expected manner, I lose the first time my opponent attacks in a way I am not used to, or if I do happen parry and grab my opponent, and he resists my attempts to throw him I lose.
    There is a guy on YouTube, fMy Martial Arts Journey, an Aikido black belt, owned his own studio for 13 years. This guy challenged himself to expand his knowledge of Martial Arts, and he found Aikido does not work. He has since closed his dojo and has started training jujitsu and boxing. He still loves Aikido, but realized it's limitations as self defense.
     
  14. strat a various

    strat a various Friend of Leo's

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    Aikido isn't for self defense, that's just an advertising gimmick. I'm not surprised there are failed senseis that used that gimmick to drum up business. Aikido is an Art form. Teach these techniques to a fighter and you have a fighter able to run your head into a wall ... and you never saw it coming.

    The internet is full of students and even senseis who list all the styles they either don't like or failed learning ... Tai Kwan Do, Shotokan, Hapkido, Kempo. These styles are ritual and artistic. There are some senseis that try to create "fighting" or combat capable versions of these various styles. That's how MMA developed, by combining real fighting, like boxing, Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu with various elements of other Asian martial art techniques. These are synthetic styles, so they may work well in a ring or cage following the rules of a fight competition. In the real world, cage fighting still suffers from training to follow the rules ... no groin strikes, biting, finger bending, breaking, head butts are out, no eye-poking or controlling your opponent by his hair.

    In real fights outside the dojo, the ring, or the cage, the best winners, the best survivors, are the guys who are strong, ruthless, fearless, know many varied techniques, and have the determination to conquer, and most of all, experience. I've had friends who were cage fighters and successful boxers. A few of them would cave in if you gouged their eye or broke their knee. Then again, I've known bikers who fought to a victory with a knife stuck in their stomach and a dislocated shoulder. It's the spirit of the individual that makes a dangerous opponent, not the style they have practiced.
     
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  15. kbold

    kbold Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Wrt Aikido, I will have to disagree with the last few posts.
    If you take 2 people studying martial arts, one studying Aikido. For the first 5 years the Aikido student will be at a relative disadvantage. After 5 years, things start levelling out. After 10 years, the Aikido student may have an advantage.
    So, short term disadvantage, long term advantage.
    If you look at MMA champions, many of them have studied Aikido (along with other modes).

    A lot of the Aikido you may have seen is a show. Same can be said for any M.A. public demonstrations. Public shows create interest to keep the revenue flowing.
    If I was in a fight, by using Aikido, I know if he grabs me or if I can grab him, I will have him immobilised on the ground very quickly, and there's nothing he can do to avoid it.
     
  16. Charlie Bernstein

    Charlie Bernstein Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yup! A favorite story:

    An old friend grew up in West Virginia. Back in the sixties, he was at a bluegrass festival. He was out in the parking lot when he heard two guys arguing loudly, an wiry old farmer type and a tough young know-it-all.

    It heated up until the two guys were nose to nose. The young guy started rolling up his sleeves. So the old guy took his teeth out and put them on the hood of a pickup truck.

    The young guy just shrugged and slunk away.
     

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  17. Charlie Bernstein

    Charlie Bernstein Poster Extraordinaire

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    Or a trusty Kabonger.

     
  18. Solrac Kai

    Solrac Kai Tele-Holic

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    A few things you have said that don't make sense. "Aikido isn't for self defense" Yet, "Teach these techniques to a fighter and you have a fighter able to run your head into a wall ... and you never saw it coming." what a contradiction!

    The Aikido black belt I mentioned was very successful, Art form or not, if you took a look at his videos you would see how woefully lacking Aikido is in sparring, he even notes how difficult it was to even be in position to use Aikido techniques against a person who wasn't performing as a willing partner.

    Ever try to gouge an eye during a real fight? it's not as easy as Uma Thurman did it in Kill Bill. Or how about that kick to the knee that breaks it? That doesn't happen either. And what makes you think that a "cage fighter" won't fight dirty in a real fight? I hear this argument often. The rules are there because it's a sport, don't fool yourself into believing that those guys don't know how to fight dirty, they know. Ever try to break someone's finger? First of all you have to able to grab the hand, and be in a position to apply the leverage. The person isn't just going to be standing there doing nothing. And headbutts, ever try that? The only times this is possible is right at the start of the fight when you are standing close and the person isn't ready to defend themselves and if you don't do it right, you can hurt yourself just as bad. Or if you have mounted the person, but you would have to have been able to wrestle the person down first. Controlling the person by the hair, if it's long, maybe, if it's short no way.

    I know a person who was shot three times in a drive by, that dude was so bad he got up and chased the car of the people who shot him we're in, then when he couldn't catch them he ran himself to the hospital.but that doesn't prove anything about any martial art being useful.

    The simple fact is, any Martial Art that does not use sparring against an actively resisting opponent is worthless.
     
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  19. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Now that right there is strategy at work!
     
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  20. Charlie Bernstein

    Charlie Bernstein Poster Extraordinaire

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    Well, aiki-dokey, then!
     
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