The pentatonic scale has no half steps...

Discussion in 'Tab, Tips, Theory and Technique' started by charlie chitlin, Feb 13, 2020.

  1. kafka

    kafka Tele-Afflicted

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    I took theory at Peabody in high school, but it was of very limited value because I wasn't also taking composition. A bunch of scales and chords don't mean anything at all unless you put them in a musical context.

    In my senior year, we had enough interest, so one of the music teachers offered theory so we could get out of taking the art history class requirement, which would have necessitated us dropping music classes altogether. We spend the year doing SATB harmonization. It was a lot of fun and very valuable.

    All my real theory work has been trying to understand jazz and how to play it on guitar. Guitar is a great/horrible instrument to deal with, because you have to do so much omission/selection to play extended harmony with - let's just come out and say it - 3 and if you're lucky 4 strings. Probably the single most important thing you can get out of that is that you're doing all the hard stuff with the top 3 fingers, so your index finger can move around and hit a bass note, or sometimes the high note.
     
  2. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    Hmm, I didn't read your post, but I will. I'm just sharing my experience, it has zero to do with your post other than we must have talked about similar things.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  3. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    yeah, I need to be more selective in my reading of posts, as well. (;^)...
     
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  4. klasaine

    klasaine Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    You can play any note, anywhere, anytime as long as you approach it and/or leave it with a good or 'target' note ... or, at the very least - purposefully.

    All those chromatic tones you found (that I bolded above), you've probably noticed that some work better than others depending on whether you're playing the I, the IV or the V chord. Ex: the note on the 3rd string, 4th fret (B natural, the 3rd of G) will sound great on the G chord, pretty good on the D chord and unless you and your band mates are really careful - not so great on the C chord. It's the major 7th at that point. Not a great "blues" note but absolutely functional if you know how to employ it. *Neil Young, Wayne Shorter and Bill Frisell are great at it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  5. rangercaster

    rangercaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    If you are fluent in a language, it doesn't necessarily mean you have anything interesting or relevant to say ...
     
  6. rangercaster

    rangercaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    My take is that you learn all the the theory, scales, fretboard knowledge you possibly can ... practice until
    it becomes
    second nature... brain implanted ...
    But when you're actually playing your instrument ... you are not thinking about that stuff at all ... it's just
    Music ...
     
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  7. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    I don't understand, are you upset?
     
  8. Recce

    Recce Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    2C70ED5B-FA16-4258-BC78-E32AA3360DF6.jpeg
    I had not played my SG in awhile so I took it out to my garage to play out there through my Marshall which is in my garage. I have a Boss Tuner Pedal and tuned using that. When I was done tuning I hit a chord and it sounded like cats fighting. Checked a couple times and still cats fighting. I didn’t realize the yellow light on the top of the pedal meant, I think, three strings were sharp. Luckily there was a Super Snark Tuner out there and I put it on. Oh those strings are sharp. Corrected tuning. No more fighting cats. Yes, I have a hardly functioning ear to tune. I wish it was better.
     

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  9. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    Your post was very informative, and you name the intervals. But that's where our posts go different ways, I keep my discussion to the minor pents, and then how the major and minor blues scale combined make the 8 note and 9 note blues scales.

    You post offers direction on what to seek and study, and that's good stuff.

    But seriously, our posts are way different.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  10. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    In the opening licks of Texas Flood, Stevie uses the b2 one time, and it really shines. It's a standout moment for me.
     
  11. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    You are communicating all this good info in words. Guitar players don't concern themselves with words, but musicians do.
    That makes you most definitely a musician.
    Way to go!
     
  12. charlie chitlin

    charlie chitlin Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I once heard someone say this. Later I pulled out my guitar and tried to find a context for this note. I couldn't.
    I'll listen to that intro. Thanks.
     
  13. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    and this post of yours points directly to an example of what I was very quickly getting at. Without thinking about all of the notes in the octave while only thinking of the major and minor pentatonics, then SRV would never have hit that flatted ninth, correct?
     
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  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Not at all....
     
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  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Interesting assertion!
    A friend with a degree from Berklee stated the exact opposite, calling me a musician and himself "just a guitar player".
    I'll try not to take it personally but nobody likes to be treated as an outsider just because they are different...


    ...Actually, being different as a musician has been a constant goal, though one I keep falling short of...
     
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  16. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    I love that b2.
     
  17. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    I talk all the time here about the value of two note and three note chords. It can be very advanced and it can be easy to play.

    Imo, 98% of the time there is zero need for doubling notes. I've learned from great players that a person can hear 3 note chords better than they can hear 5 note chords.

    One reason is tuning, the guitar is tuned to 12edo, that means 12 equal distances between the octave. You can tune your guitar to standard open strings but once you start moving up the neck there becomes slight "out of tune" notes that happen. There can be pressure problems when fretting a barre chord like the six string E shape. That shape has three roots and two 5ths, and only one 3rd, the doubled notes are usually not in tune with each other, they become three notes slightly out of tune with each other. That will not sound pretty. So a three note chord has no duplicate notes which means no tuning clash and you get a much nicer sound. How often in tuning do you have to find a compromise when tuning the open G and the open B. Blame that on 12edo.

    Think about it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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  18. Larry F

    Larry F Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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    One night before bed, I thumbed through several of those 100 blues song fakebooks. There were a lot of 12-bar blues in major with a minor pent melody.
     
  19. ASATKat

    ASATKat Friend of Leo's

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    Well, that's the best music, as a tool, has for trying to include blues tones into notation. Notation greatly forgets blues.

    When they say minor pent they're talking about the bluesy micro tones in between the frets. For example the song chart says A7 chord, the major 3rd in the chord is NOT the 3rd you will bend to in your pentatonic when soloing.

    The fretted 3rd can sound good in blues, Clapton used it all the time, but Clapton also knew the real deal blues tone is roughly halfway between the fretted minor 3rd and the fretted major 3rd. It's in between the frets, it's often called a 1/4 tone. The players that have experienced this tone knows what I'm talking about. The pentatonic acts like a springboard, allowing these little bends

    So when they say minor pent they mean the five pent notes plus all the 1/4 tones or microtones, and there are a few important ones to know, blue 1a. These notes are found in bends,,, bends going up and bends going down, the bends sort of mirror each other, yin/yang. You can push notes flat, you can bend the neck to flatten, you could use very slight whammy to get the effect. These bends are very, very small, only a couple few cents.

    Anyway some of these tones are the sweetest tones we can get on our axes. And they are the best notes for sustained feedback notes that morph into overtones.

    It's sort of a hard topic but can be learned by ear. Trying to put it in notation doesn't really work.

    Hope that helps,
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
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