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The Original Fender Super Champ Club

Discussion in 'Amp Owners Clubs' started by Big Tony, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. okgb

    okgb TDPRI Member

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    Hey Bendyha , I tried your values for making the o/d clean switch not suck tone , but now it doesn't seem to switch right , just dirty to more dirty I'll triple check I have used the correct values , can you shed any insight ? I have no clean now ! [ I very well may have done something incorrect ] just trying to get it Great !
     
  2. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Insight.....not really...if its not working,then something has been done wrong. A gut shot or two might help shed some light on the case.
     
  3. okgb

    okgb TDPRI Member

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    I'd blame myself first , I did make the mistake of doing a few mods at once and not trying confirming them one at a time [ a more sound way to not get in the pickle I currently am ! ] I just put it aside, another mistake, so I don't recall exactly all mods done , but I believe footswitch not sucking tone mod , some kind of toneful , [ bigger sound ? ] mod ? DSC09039.JPG DSC09040.JPG
     

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  4. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Okay, so what I can see?
    At first, you have (in the red loop) changed the bass and mid caps from 0.1µ and 0.047µ, into two 0.022µF caps...from what I can see it apears to be done right. Not having tried this myself, I can not coment on the effect this might have on the overall tone or gain of the amp.

    Then we have the green loop, this is the adding of the 680K and 270K resistors to the two 470K resistors, to solve the footswitch tone suck problem....from what I can make out, that appears to be done correctly.....but one would have to measure it up to see if the resistance to the Vactrol is now about 1150K, and several M to ground with the lead switch open, or with the switch shut, about 1M5. The other resistors to the reverb poti wiper should read about 740K.

    Then there is the blue loop, which is a mod to revoice/tame the lead signal. I see you have chosen not to bypass the 1M resistor with a cap, and that you have a 0.001µ cap feeding the lead, unlike the 0.0027 that was in my amp, so I imagine you will be getting a thicker tone from your set-up....but not being like mine, I can only speculat. The layout seems to be okay, but again, only measuring it up will show if there are any faults in the circuit......If you are not happy with the lead tone now, try removing the added resistor, and moving the yellow wire back to the other end of the 1M resistor where it was.
    upload_2019-2-28_11-4-16.png

    Here is an original SC of the same area for comparison.

    upload_2019-2-28_11-33-31.png

    When you say......".......but now it doesn't seem to switch right , just dirty to more dirty.....", does that mean the sitching does work, but the clean sound, as well as the lead has got a lot more drive than before ?

    Have you done any other changes elsewhere?
     
  5. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Always a good idea............ I know it is tempting to do several things in one go and get it all done, but it does make any ensuing problems a damn sight more difficult to trace.
     
  6. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    ...but running it through TSC gives you the following.........green - original.............red - modded. for min, mid, and max pot settings, giving up to about 5dB boost (less loss) in the bass range...which is quite a bit, and around 3.5 to 4dB in the mids, at about half an octave higher.

    upload_2019-2-28_15-3-44.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019
  7. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Using the TSC setting with Log B pots instead of the Log A, gives a better looking range sweep, here I have included the mid boost with the white lines for the modded version, and the lilac for the unmodded.
    upload_2019-2-28_17-37-30.png
     
  8. okgb

    okgb TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for your great detailed reply, I'll be away from home most of this month so won't get a chance to try, but here is what's currently happening
    on the clean channel it s fairly distorted gain 5 [ hb or ss emg ] albeit a pretty nice distortion. pulling the lead switch it gets thicker but not really more distorted and won't get louder than the clean channel, the mid mid adds more gain. I thought it was overall a little lacking in bass so that was some of my motivation for mods and to start using the footswitch. perhaps I've added too much gain somewhere ? tia for any help!
     
  9. mark 1

    mark 1 TDPRI Member

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    Hi, I just bought an 84 Super Champ. Loud little beast! It has the original speaker in it. I have a JBL K110 that's in a 77 PR.
    I ran the S.C. head into the K110, much better, even considering the cabinet difference. I'd like to keep the amp as light as possible.
    (I bought it for its weight and size) I was wondering why the amp seems to respond well to high wattage speakers. The EV force
    comes out on top in a lot of discussion about speaker choice. Would a 30-50 watt speaker provide enough clean headroom? I won't be
    using it with a band. Thanks for any insight. I've already learned a ton just reading thru this forum. There are some serious dudes onboard!
     
  10. ScottJPatrick

    ScottJPatrick Friend of Leo's

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    I have used an Eminence 1058 to good effect in a Super Champ, the 1028 is very highly rated by Wally, I currently use the EV10 which suits the amp perfectly but it will add about 12lbs to the weight overall..
     
  11. mark 1

    mark 1 TDPRI Member

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    Hi Scott, thanks for the reply and info. I'll be hauling the amp around, so I'd like to keep it on the light side. The Emi 1058 is
    a little over 5lbs. which is not a lot more than the stock speaker. I've read a few good reviews on the 1058, I should try one.
    I usually pedals for any kind of distortion. Was the 1058 good for that? Thanks again!
     
  12. ScottJPatrick

    ScottJPatrick Friend of Leo's

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    Yes, handled distortion no problem. I don't use the 2nd channel on the Super Champ so can't speak for that but using the clean channel with or without the mid boost the 1058 was fine with pedals. I actually have the 1058 in an old Peavey backstage cab (no amp) and plan on using it as an extension cab paired with the EV speaker in my amp. Used it briefly like that and sounded pretty good, lots of chime and tight bass. I use a different output transformer so have a 4ohm tap to play with, in the process of finishing it off so will create a thread about it once it's fully done.
     
  13. mark 1

    mark 1 TDPRI Member

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    I've had the amp for a few days now and I'm inclined not to use the 2nd channel either. I like the tones I'm getting from various
    combinations of OD, dist. fuzz etc. I bet the 2 ten set up sounds pretty big. What does the different O.T. give you? I would imagine
    more headroom, tighter low end and more overall level?
     
  14. mark 1

    mark 1 TDPRI Member

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    Hey InyoTim, I was looking at a Celestion Gold as well. Any problem stuffing it into that little cab??
     
  15. mark 1

    mark 1 TDPRI Member

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  16. mark 1

    mark 1 TDPRI Member

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    I've been having fun with the '84 S.C. i bought recently. Bought a nos GE 6c10, replaced the original speaker with an Eminence 1058. Sounds awesome! I love this amp. I used the 1058 to keep the weight down as I'll be lugging it around. I don't play it that loud, usually the volume at 3 and master at 7. I like what the pull out mid does. I have the treble at 4. Having the volume up a bit and the master down, seems to knock off some of the harshness. I play clean a lot, but when i need some distortion, I have an
    '80s Rat pedal that sounds rich and thick, or if I dial the filter back on the Rat, I can get close to a Mick Ronson 'Hang onto yourself' kinda sound. I know the small cab can be an issue, but it's not too hard to get some early Zep tones out of it.
     
  17. ExpeditionElec

    ExpeditionElec TDPRI Member

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    Got another Super Champ a few days ago. Snatched this one up since it's an export model with voltage switch and I have a house I'm renovating in Croatia. Need a Super Champ wherever I go :) Set about doing a few small mods:

    1. Add screen resistors and grid stoppers to power tubes (a bit more of a pain than usual with the voltage switch in there.
    2. 12AU7 into reverb driver (team Wally)
    3. removed snubbers on V1, left it on V2
    4. used 500pF snubber to replace the 2000pF feeding reverb (think it's better for verb and don't care too much about the pull boost)
    5. separated reverb feed from the .001 feeding the dry signal to reverb mixer. this allows reorienting the reverb feed cap and removing a wire that's crossing right in the middle of the board and seems like a strange layout choice to me (white one the goes over the Vactrol). There's a lot of wiring in there so anything that tidies it up I like. Also makes playing with the .001 value independent of the reverb / OD signal.
    6. this reverb pan seems to have a ton of 'dwell', really long tail. need to check it's part number but reduced dwell a little by replacing 220k with 470k.
    7. snipped the 47pF in parallel with the 3.3M resistor. Way too much treble boost for me. Will probably put the blackface 10pF value in there to listen to but not sure I'll need it.
    8. I took the 1200pF snubber from V1 and tried it in the mid boost position. Interesting but not my favorite. Does make me wonder about the '6 position mid switch' mod Rivera used to do to Fenders. I removed the hum balance jack and tied fixed resistors at the lamp to balance the heater feed. Going to try a switch in hum balance hole for mid boost cap options.

    Going to upgrade the bias feed resistor too. Got this cab with no speaker, but since I moved my other SC to an oak cab with 12" I've got an extra EV Force for this little guy.

    Oh, and I noticed that I have a 1200pF on the reverb return instead of 2200pF on the schematic. And a 39K input grid stopper instead of 33K. Pretty sure they were stock parts (chassis is from 83).
     
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  18. try1256

    try1256 TDPRI Member

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    Greetings to all! Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Tim, I have owned a Super Champ for about 20 years now. Based on the serial #, I belive it is an '83. I found this website and threads in my search to find out why my newly acquired footswitch for my SC made my amp sound so bad. Lol. It didn't take long to find the reason or the cure. I have the parts on the way to do the mod as I type this. I picked up my SC in the late 90's at a yard sale. I can't divulge what I paid for it as I would probably be banned. I thought it was a bust. When I got home with it, I plugged it in it didn't work. As I unplugged it, voila!, the light came on. After a trip to Home Depot to get a replacement plug, I was rocking. I have used it itermittently over the years, playing for a while at my church, jamming with friends and just playing at home. Here lately I have gotten the itch to play again and it is still serving me well. This thread and the Optimizing thread are a wealth of knowledge so thanks to all who have contributed. I will probably read more than write but if I have something to contribute, I certainly will.

    Regards

    Tim

    83SC.jpg
     
  19. Bendyha

    Bendyha Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Welcolm Tim. Great to have you on board as a long time player of this great amp. Whats your number one guitar?
    Let us know how you get on with the footswitch problem cure mod. If you've got any questions about it, feel free to ask, and I will do my best to help you out.
     
  20. try1256

    try1256 TDPRI Member

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    Thanks Bendyha. Your guidance in the optimizing post is priceless. Thanks for the gracious offer. I don’t have a large collection of guitars. I would have to give the number one spot to my 1973 ES-335. It was a gift from my wife in 1980, the year after we were married. Followed by my 1974 Les Paul Custom 20th Anniversary, I bought it in 1974 and my 1979 25th Anniversary Stratocaster. My guitar playing lay dormant for quite a while but of late I have been re-inspired to play again. Plugging in any of my guitars in the SC has never disappointed. Even at current prices, the capabilities of this amp make it a bargain. I am anxious to do the foot switch mod as well as the reverb/lead drive mod. I will report the results when it is complete.
     
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