The Lyrics and the Legend of ‘Loch Lomond’

Kandinskyesque

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Posts
1,440
Location
Scotland
It was Alexandria, just North of Glasgow. She used to bump in to the singer from Wetwetwet in the supermarket... anyway, it was probably closer than half an hour, but it was back in the 90s, and I'm getting old. :)
Alexandria is about 10 minutes away from the Loch.
It sits on the River Leven which is the river that runs out of the southern end of the loch into the Clyde.
 

nickmm

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Posts
965
Location
Austrailia
It was Alexandria, just North of Glasgow. She used to bump in to the singer from Wetwetwet in the supermarket... anyway, it was probably closer than half an hour, but it was back in the 90s, and I'm getting old. :)
I was born in Portsmouth. My dad was a submariner in the UK navy, so we moved a bit.
I remember Edinburgh as very cold.
We came to Australia as 10 pound poms.
 

LGOberean

Doctor of Teleocity
Joined
May 31, 2008
Posts
13,526
Age
68
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
It's been interesting (to me, anyway) researching the language of this old song. Scots, sometimes called Broad Scots or Lowland Scots, is a living language distinct from English or Gaelic. I've read a little about it online, and found online dictionaries to refer to.

And one aspect of the language of the song possibly conflicts with the legend. I've read more than one account of the legend that has the protagonist/speaker addressing his "true love." The trouble is, in the language of the song, he never directly addresses his true love; it's always an indirect reference.

Furthermore, the chorus reads "Ye'll tak' the high road...And I'll be in Scotland afore ye." I know that in Old, Middle and even Early Modern English, "ye" is used as a second person plural pronoun. In the Scots Online Dictionary, there is this entry for the word ye...

you [juː, S. jʌu]
also ye [jiː, jɪ] pl. ye col. yese [jiːz]
pron. You. pl. you col. youse [juːz]

If "ye" is used in the Scots language in this song as a plural, then it would refer to a collective "you," which in the context of this song being about the Jacobite rebellion, I would take as a possible reference to his comrades in arms. Or am I missing something? Anyone care to weigh in on this linguistic detail as it pertains to the meaning of the song?
 

nickmm

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Posts
965
Location
Austrailia
It's been interesting (to me, anyway) researching the language of this old song. Scots, sometimes called Broad Scots or Lowland Scots, is a living language distinct from English or Gaelic. I've read a little about it online, and found online dictionaries to refer to.

And one aspect of the language of the song possibly conflicts with the legend. I've read more than one account of the legend that has the protagonist/speaker addressing his "true love." The trouble is, in the language of the song, he never directly addresses his true love; it's always an indirect reference.

Furthermore, the chorus reads "Ye'll tak' the high road...And I'll be in Scotland afore ye." I know that in Old, Middle and even Early Modern English, "ye" is used as a second person plural pronoun. In the Scots Online Dictionary, there is this entry for the word ye...

you [juː, S. jʌu]
also ye [jiː, jɪ] pl. ye col. yese [jiːz]
pron. You. pl. you col. youse [juːz]

If "ye" is used in the Scots language in this song as a plural, then it would refer to a collective "you," which in the context of this song being about the Jacobite rebellion, I would take as a possible reference to his comrades in arms. Or am I missing something? Anyone care to weigh in on this linguistic detail as it pertains to the meaning of the song?
As a musician the song is about about the narrative, I'm more offended by cultural appropriation than a delivery of the song in a heartfelt way. That is the folk tradition.
To hear a Texan tell me the story of ‘Loch Lomond’ is more interesting than a prefect recital from the score from the 1800's

 

somebodyelseuk

Tele-Holic
Joined
Nov 24, 2020
Posts
700
Age
55
Location
Birmingham UK
I was born in Portsmouth. My dad was a submariner in the UK navy, so we moved a bit.
I remember Edinburgh as very cold.
We came to Australia as 10 pound poms.
Yeah? My sister (and her husband) were in the Navy. She was based at the West Coast base straight after training (Faslane?). I've a few friends in Edinburgh and Dunfermline. Haven't been up there, since my sight went. Love Scotland to bits. Breathtaking scenery and friendly people.
 

Kandinskyesque

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Posts
1,440
Location
Scotland
It's been interesting (to me, anyway) researching the language of this old song. Scots, sometimes called Broad Scots or Lowland Scots, is a living language distinct from English or Gaelic. I've read a little about it online, and found online dictionaries to refer to.

And one aspect of the language of the song possibly conflicts with the legend. I've read more than one account of the legend that has the protagonist/speaker addressing his "true love." The trouble is, in the language of the song, he never directly addresses his true love; it's always an indirect reference.

Furthermore, the chorus reads "Ye'll tak' the high road...And I'll be in Scotland afore ye." I know that in Old, Middle and even Early Modern English, "ye" is used as a second person plural pronoun. In the Scots Online Dictionary, there is this entry for the word ye...

you [juː, S. jʌu]
also ye [jiː, jɪ] pl. ye col. yese [jiːz]
pron. You. pl. you col. youse [juːz]

If "ye" is used in the Scots language in this song as a plural, then it would refer to a collective "you," which in the context of this song being about the Jacobite rebellion, I would take as a possible reference to his comrades in arms. Or am I missing something? Anyone care to weigh in on this linguistic detail as it pertains to the meaning of the song?
During the early 2000s a friend of mine made a series of documentaries on the Scots language/dialect (whether it's a language is still being debated).









He was entertaining my grandkids last month telling them stories and poems in Scots, when he came to stay with us on holiday.
He had to translate some of the words for me never mind the grandkids.

As for the Loch Lomond song, The Corries do a very haunting folk version of the song.
 

nickmm

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Posts
965
Location
Austrailia
Yeah? My sister (and her husband) were in the Navy. She was based at the West Coast base straight after training (Faslane?). I've a few friends in Edinburgh and Dunfermline. Haven't been up there, since my sight went. Love Scotland to bits. Breathtaking scenery and friendly people.
Dad was from Gloucester. So I remember my Nan's neighbours playing Blue Beat and Ska records all day really loud.
We came to Australia in the 70's. Funny we are the same age.
I've come back a few times but the UK does not feel like home to me.
 

Kandinskyesque

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Dec 6, 2021
Posts
1,440
Location
Scotland
If "ye" is used in the Scots language in this song as a plural, then it would refer to a collective "you," which in the context of this song being about the Jacobite rebellion, I would take as a possible reference to his comrades in arms. Or am I missing something? Anyone care to weigh in on this linguistic detail as it pertains to the meaning of the song?
I use "ye" in singular and plural in my every day speech. Pronounced more like "Yay" on the west coast.
The only time I'll use "you" is when I'm being either more formal or on the telephone to non Scots. My speed of speech also halves its normal rate when doing the latter.
 

nickmm

Tele-Holic
Joined
Dec 22, 2010
Posts
965
Location
Austrailia
During the early 2000s a friend of mine made a series of documentaries on the Scots language/dialect (whether it's a language is still being debated).









He was entertaining my grandkids last month telling them stories and poems in Scots, when he came to stay with us on holiday.
He had to translate some of the words for me never mind the grandkids.

As for the Loch Lomond song, The Corries do a very haunting folk version of the song.

The Australian dialect is a blend of Irish Scottish and English. So I sort of get it all.

Except the northern Irish.. that I struggle with it, in the south of Ireland I have no problems.
These clips are great
 
Last edited:

ScottJPatrick

Friend of Leo's
Joined
May 12, 2011
Posts
2,705
Location
Stirling, Scotland.
Ask and ye shall receive, this is the version that has the lyrics naming Bonnie Prince Charlie in the song, there are a few versions out there but this is probably the most authentic to the original. It's meant to be a dirge but people often mistake it for an up tempo happier song and sing it that way.

 

LGOberean

Doctor of Teleocity
Joined
May 31, 2008
Posts
13,526
Age
68
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
During the early 2000s a friend of mine made a series of documentaries on the Scots language/dialect (whether it's a language is still being debated).









He was entertaining my grandkids last month telling them stories and poems in Scots, when he came to stay with us on holiday.
He had to translate some of the words for me never mind the grandkids.

As for the Loch Lomond song, The Corries do a very haunting folk version of the song.


Thanks for that, truly. I've already watched the first of that four "pairt" series of videos, I will watch the others as I'm able. And I can tell I'll have to watch them more than once, and almost certainly with the Scots Online Dictionary open in another tab on my laptop.
 

LGOberean

Doctor of Teleocity
Joined
May 31, 2008
Posts
13,526
Age
68
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
Ask and ye shall receive, this is the version that has the lyrics naming Bonnie Prince Charlie in the song, there are a few versions out there but this is probably the most authentic to the original. It's meant to be a dirge but people often mistake it for an up tempo happier song and sing it that way.



Ever since @Kandinskyesque mentioned The Corries' folk version, I meant to look it up. Thanks for posting that.
 

SuprHtr

Friend of Leo's
Silver Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Posts
2,047
Age
65
Location
Rocket City
This is fascinating stuff for me. My great grandfather was an engineer from Aberfeldy. He emigrated to the US in the late 19th century and founded a seamless tube manufacturing works in Pennsylvania. I should have majored in history.
 

Stringbanger

Telefied
Ad Free Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Posts
29,599
Location
West O' Philly, PA
That was so beautiful, its unleased emotions from within me, I thought long dead. Thank you for posting something I would never have known existed.
I am so glad you liked it! We have been sort of buddies for a while. Certainly where comedy comes in. Always love your posts (most of the time).:);):(:mad::confused::cool:

Your best ones are your summer posts.:p:D:oops::rolleyes::cry:o_O:twisted::lol:
 

mindlobster

Tele-Afflicted
Joined
Nov 26, 2010
Posts
1,622
Location
London England
So far I came across this (link)but I'll ask around and see what I can find, I'm only 5 miles as the crow flies from the east bank.
The village nearby has a great deal of university level musicians , composers and musicologists, if there's anywhere the info can be found I'm sure it's here.

This area in the Loch Lomond and Trossachs National Park was a very Jacobite area back then, largely the MacGregor Clan, mainly Gaelic speaking (the first translation of the New Testament in Gaelic happened half a mile away from me) which was suppressed in its usage after the Culloden massacre.

A lovely song which runs through my ears on my weekly drive along to my secret place near Inversnaid on the north east bank.

Edit: the last photograph in my anniversary post earlier today has Loch Lomond in the background. We're at a bridge over a waterfall that runs into the loch at Inversnaid.


From Luss.
View attachment 1017431


From Inversnaid.
View attachment 1017434
Visited there once, it's a beautiful and very photogenic place, hope to get back some time. You're lucky to have that nearby.
 

LGOberean

Doctor of Teleocity
Joined
May 31, 2008
Posts
13,526
Age
68
Location
Corpus Christi, Texas
This is fascinating stuff for me. My great grandfather was an engineer from Aberfeldy. He emigrated to the US in the late 19th century and founded a seamless tube manufacturing works in Pennsylvania. I should have majored in history.

I didn't major in nuthin'. I ain't never had me no kolige edumacashun. :oops:

Still, I like to read, and as I've said, I enjoy research. And I've long been interested in history, and in my own family history. The latter doesn't help me much in this discussion, since my great-grandfather came to Texas in 1890 and for five generations since, our family has been Texas born & raised. Before my great-grandfather's time, our family was in Mississippi, before that, Tennessee, before that, North Carolina. And before that, Ireland. So I have no connection to Scotland beyond my love of the music.
 




Top