The Late, great Ginger Baker once said that the most important thing a musician should have is TIME.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Blazer, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Blazer

    Blazer Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    16,209
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    [​IMG]
    He also said that that was the reason why he and Jack Bruce were such a powerful rhythm section even though they never got along as people. Their sense of time was so perfectly synced. Heck, it was also the reason why he approached Eric Clapton to form Cream with in the first place because Clapton had time in his way of playing.

    So I figure it to be fun to post clips of musicians who have that sense of time.

    Here's Joe Pass and Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen, note how airtight the groove is between them, when Pedersen does a solo, Pass keeps the groove going by adding chord jabs. There's way more going on than just shredding for putting in as much notes as possible.

    Now a band like The Foo Fighters aren't really the first that come to mind when you think of a band with technically proficient players, there are no songs of theirs which make people go "WHOA!" But make no mistake Dave Grohl DOES have time in his playing, he still is a drummer. But it was when they brought in Joe Walsh to guest on their song "Outside" that they got a lesson into what Time really is.

    Note Taylor Hawkins just freaking out as Joe puts down the solo.
     
    Squittolo, stinkey, jonnyfez and 7 others like this.
  2. Nubs

    Nubs Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    45
    Posts:
    2,275
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Time and patience. The song rolls on in its own time. Don't be too quick to get there before you're supposed to.
     
    Rocky058 and telestratosonic like this.
  3. E5RSY

    E5RSY Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,907
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Location:
    Georgetown, TX
    So deep in the pocket, they probably didn't come out for days.

     
    stantheman, Nahtabot and Cali Dude like this.
  4. maxvintage

    maxvintage Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    61
    Posts:
    4,913
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    I'm pretty sure Ginger baker's life indicates that you need more than good time.
     
  5. Wallaby

    Wallaby Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

    Age:
    56
    Posts:
    1,408
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2018
    Location:
    Midwest
    Jack DeJohnette and Dave Holland.
     
  6. tele_savales

    tele_savales Tele-Holic

    Age:
    54
    Posts:
    785
    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2018
    Location:
    Brooklyn, Joey!
    Ginger Baker said a lot of things, usually inflammatory and prone to hyperbole, and that he wasn't a rock drummer, but a jazz drummer, as if the music that made him wealthy was illegitimate.

    His pocket was adequate, certainly nowhere near approaching Bonham's, Mitch Mitchell's or even Bill Ward's.

    That said, what he laid down down on the Blind Faith record was light years ahead of anything he did with Cream. His tone is better, his playing has more musicality, and his pocket is deeper.
     
  7. nomadh

    nomadh Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    56
    Posts:
    1,196
    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Location:
    san diego
    When someone say I rushed something I dont even question it anymore. Time is still something I fight with even though its so much better. We recently started performing the who real me. That song has a built in pocket that as snuggly and comfortable as being a baby kangaroo in their mothers pouch. It is just pure groove. We recently recorded it and the most amazing thing was the bass players entwistle fake was just incredible. He wants it for his personal best of demo tape. Now we need to learn the actual song structure and all.
     
  8. Bartholomew3

    Bartholomew3 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,758
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal
    I did a couple of sessions at Atlantic Studios, NY with Corky Laing on drums, Felix Pappalardi on bass and producing. Felix told me I had perfect time which was the biggest compliment of my musical career.

    Felix also produced the YoungBloods huge hit way back as well as the first two Cream albums plus he wrote "Strange Brew" with his wife, created Mountain with Leslie West and produced other bands.

    Corky was my drummer (or maybe I was his guitar player) for approx 6 years in Montreal before Mountain. He was asked to join Felix & Leslie a couple of years after I broke-up our sock-hop, party band.

    Time was job #1 with Felix...there was no jamming, everything was well arranged and planned, ready to cut in 3 or 4 takes, all parts worked-out in advance. Fortunately we had a groove at a young age.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2020
  9. archetype

    archetype Fiend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,743
    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Location:
    Williamsville NY
    Oh yeah... it's like they shared one mind when they played.
     
  10. Hey_you

    Hey_you Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    686
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2019
    Location:
    Colorado USA
    I got mine! ;)
     
  11. Elmore

    Elmore Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    823
    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Location:
    Atlanta
     
    stinkey likes this.
  12. dlew919

    dlew919 Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,092
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Location:
    Sydney
    The musicians with the best time I’m aware of

    in no order

    Sam Bush

    mike stern

    ringo Starr

    Leo nonecetti

    Prince

    J D Crowe.

    victor wooten.

    there are others.
     
    FenderBenderNY likes this.
  13. Blazer

    Blazer Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    16,209
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    When I did the sessions for my metal band Slavantas only release "Stand your ground" our producer at the time made me play along with a click track but was blown away by how rock solid and yet grooving my rhythm playing was. He told me "Man your time is just impeccable, you rival Randy Rhoads, seriously."

    I saw Slavantas last year in their new line up (I was asked to rejoin that band but after being reminded on why that band folded: the Leadsinger's BS, I decided not to.) And the tightness of the band simply wasn't there, I looked at what my replacement was doing and actually wanted to snatch that guitar from him.

    Cringe worthy to hear those songs of which I had been such a big part of in their creation and resulting sound, not being done justice.

    Not as cool as your story but at least we both were told that we have perfect time.
     
    archetype and Bartholomew3 like this.
  14. Old Smokey

    Old Smokey TDPRI Member

    Age:
    39
    Posts:
    71
    Joined:
    May 14, 2019
    Location:
    Bk, nyc
    100% agree. The difference between good and really good is almost always timing.
     
    archetype, kLyon and drmordo like this.
  15. drmordo

    drmordo Tele-Holic

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    582
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    To me, the difference between a good player and a great player is their time.

    Guys like Dexter Gordon and Charlie Parker have such a powerful sense of time it's amazing to me.

    That said, the "pocket" is a different thing. "Time" is how consistently a player feels the pulse of the beat, whereas the "pocket" is where they play on the beat.

    Ginger's playing is pretty outstanding on these lesser known tracks IMO:




     
    kLyon likes this.
  16. Mjark

    Mjark Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    13,443
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Location:
    Annapolis, MD
    Time is the most important thing for every musician.
     
    Lawdawg and 41144 like this.
  17. dlew919

    dlew919 Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    10,092
    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Location:
    Sydney
    Whatsthesecretofagoodjoketiming
     
    teletimetx, kLyon and FenderBenderNY like this.
  18. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    12,604
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    victoria b.c. CANADA
    This is one of my 'go to' examples for groove and time....everytime I watch this clip I can't help but wonder if Stevie was wishing this was his band....they are absolute mofos...

     
  19. drmordo

    drmordo Tele-Holic

    Age:
    46
    Posts:
    582
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I have never seen that clip, but I have a whole new regard for Omar Hakim. Amazing stuff.

    If that had been SRV's band, I'd still be listening to him today!
     
    boneyguy likes this.
  20. rangercaster

    rangercaster Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,490
    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Location:
    Knoxville TN for now
    Unfortunately, no matter how good your time is ...

    It eventually ends...
     
    boneyguy likes this.
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.