1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

The Fifth Beatle

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Torren61, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. Torren61

    Torren61 Poster Extraordinaire Gold Supporter

    Posts:
    5,373
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2013
    Location:
    CA
    You can get technical and say Pete Best or Murray The K or Billy Preston but I say the definitive fifth Beatle was none other than George Martin. George Martin taught the Beatles about double tracking vocals, wrote orchestral scores for their songs such as "Yesterday" and "Eleanor Rigby", showed them how to use four track and overdubs more effectively, played piano on "In My Life", "Lovely Rita" as well as doubled George's guitar with piano on "A Hard Day's Night", and so much more.

    Without George Martin's influence, the Beatles' sound would have been so much different if they ever made it in the music industry at all.

    Here are two of the best podcasts on Beatles' isolated tracks and song crafting. Martin's influence is all over The Beatles' music.

    https://www.producingthebeatles.com/

    https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-beatles-multi-track-meltdown/id1332090722
     
    Greggorios, DonM, Wally and 29 others like this.
  2. sacizob

    sacizob Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,904
    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Location:
    Middlesex County, MA
    You are definitely right about George Martin!
     
  3. Jackadder

    Jackadder Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    594
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2014
    Location:
    Western Australia
    Hats off to George Martin, but another George already nabbed 'The Fifth Beatle' title.

    GB.jpg
     
    Greggorios, RoyBGood and Ed Driscoll like this.
  4. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    33,979
    Joined:
    May 2, 2003
    Location:
    Wisco
    Brian Epstein.

    (also- he didn't kill himself ;))
     
  5. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,647
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Location:
    los angeles
    I agree 99%. You're dead on, but i believe different on what they'd have been w/o martin. Definitely not as good going by the many demos i've heard that were what the songs sounded like b4 george worked his magic on them. But i still believe they'd have been huge just on the incredible songwriting alone because the songs were too good to be stifled by the lack of george's arrangements. Would they have been AS huge? I can't say but if i had to wager i'd say not quite. My point really is that arrangements are important, but there is nothing as important as the songs. Plus as the beatles matured which in all ways they did quickly anyways, i'm sure they'd have gotten much better at that area of it. But yes, GM is w/o a doubt the 5th beatle in my book. He just didn't write the songs or play live with them, but he made an incredible band even more incredible.

     
  6. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    685
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Location:
    South of Dallas
    I suspect John and Paul preferred having George Best called the Fifth Beatle over Pete Best! ;)
     
  7. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    685
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Location:
    South of Dallas
    Reading Geoff Emerick's Here, There, and Everywhere, the Beatles (especially McCartney) loved Martin's contributions, but as a "Northerner" he was never part of the inner circle. Peter Brown, executive director of Brian Epstein's NEMS Enterprises and the best man at John & Yoko's wedding (and shortly afterward namechecked in "The Ballad of John and Yoko") wrote in his 1983 autobiography, The Love You Make: An Insider's Story of the Beatles, in the chapter describing how Murray the K anointed himself "The Fifth Beatle," "The real 'fifth Beatle' was without a doubt Neil Aspinall." Loyal roadie Mal Evans might also qualify. Maybe as the sixth Beatle.

    As Geoff Emerick wrote in his 2006 autobiography, Here, There and Everywhere: My Life Recording the Music of the Beatles, there was an “‘inner circle,’ consisting of the four Beatles plus Neil and Mal.” And within it:
    But there's no doubt that Martin was a giant of a musician, and greatly shaped their sound (as did Emerick as recording engineer, starting with Revolver). Just compare Martin's arranging style to the florid stuff on the Phil Spector version of Let It Be.
     
    DonM and Torren61 like this.
  8. String Tree

    String Tree Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    15,621
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2010
    Location:
    Up North
    If there was a Fifth Beatle, it was George Martin.
    Even if the Lads thought less of him, he certifiably pulled his weight helping to craft their sound.
     
  9. rangercaster

    rangercaster Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,501
    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Location:
    Knoxville TN for now
    I think the second McCartney would qualify, after the original one left ...
     
  10. Ed Driscoll

    Ed Driscoll Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    685
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Location:
    South of Dallas
    You've got it all wrong. Paul was the only one who lived. Batman eventually sussed it out:

    [​IMG]

    (I still have this issue. It's the only comic book from my youth I couldn't part with.)
     
  11. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

    Age:
    62
    Posts:
    12,676
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Location:
    victoria b.c. CANADA
    I've heard George Martin referred to as the fifth Beatle for many years. This isn't a new conclusion I'm afraid.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
    knavel likes this.
  12. rarebreed

    rarebreed Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    975
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2010
    Location:
    Louisville,KY
    I've said for years that Brian Epstein's death was the beginning of the end for The Beatles.
     
    Frodebro likes this.
  13. RoyBGood

    RoyBGood Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,625
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, UK
    John actually said so on hearing the sad news: 'That's it - we're finished'.
     
  14. kennl

    kennl Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,488
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2007
    Location:
    Moon Township, PA
    compare the Phil Spector production to Martin's
    then listen to Jeff beck "Blow By Blow" & "Wired" (produced by George Martin)
    he was the right person for that role and contributed greatly to the band's success
     
  15. koolaide

    koolaide Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,000
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Location:
    south carolina
    What no mention of Clapton as the fifth Beatle? Saw something on this just the other day.:lol:

    I too think it is clear that George Martin holds that spot.
     
  16. RoyBGood

    RoyBGood Doctor of Teleocity

    Posts:
    12,625
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2012
    Location:
    Northamptonshire, UK
    What a fantastic cover! Never seen that before, thanks for posting! ;)
     
  17. Jake909

    Jake909 TDPRI Member

    Posts:
    91
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2020
    Location:
    Blue highways
    As others are saying, George Martin for me was always understood to be the fifth Beatle because of his enormous influence on their musicianship, their recordings, the musical ideas he helped to nurture. (Small mention, he played on numerous recordings in addition to producing them.) Simply put, without George Martin The Beatles would have been a very different band. And while we can't say what that band would have been, we must agree their music as we know it changed the world. Their influences, all five of them, continues on like so much software running in the background of our lives.

    Yeah. Here, there, and everywhere.
     
    Mad Kiwi, Rocky058 and Torren61 like this.
  18. craigs63

    craigs63 Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    703
    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Location:
    Naperville, IL
    By the time Pete was fired and Stu left, weren't there already 6 Beatles or ex-Beatles? I would think band members would automatically get the title, before producers, managers, DJs, road crew, a guy that played on one song on a Beatles album, or myself.
    But if I'm the 5th Beatle, let me know. I need to get a record deal.
     
  19. artdecade

    artdecade Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    8,453
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2010
    Location:
    Boggo Road
    To be fair, George Martin was the fourth (and maybe even the third) Beatle in regards to overall contributions to the albums.
     
    Rocky058 and Torren61 like this.
  20. Lockback

    Lockback Tele-Meister

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    122
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2020
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    Without question, it was Martin.
    His influence, his formal music training and ability to translate Paul and John's wishes into reality made him completely irreplaceable.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.