The Epiphone "Firebird" pickups investigated - take a look under the cover

[old wrench]

There have lately been a few threads discussing Firebird pickups - both the original Gibson offerings and the more recent versions


"Real Firebirds" are distinguished from the similar appearing mini-humbuckers, by their lack of poles - they don't have the screws or slugs that are found on the mini-humbuckers - instead they have bar magnets placed inside the bobbin coils


The newer Epiphone Firebirds caught my attention, mainly because from the outside they look like the old Firebirds

I did some checking and found that they are selling for around $30 bucks shipped for a pair - bridge and neck

I suppose what really aroused my curiosity was the price - I wind my own version of the Firebird, and $30 bucks doesn't hardly cover my cost of the materials needed to wind a pair of Firebirds

So, I ordered a set so I could evaluate them and take a look and see what's under the cover

These are the pickups that Epiphone calls Pro-bucker Mini-HB, designed by Epiphone USA

That "Mini- Humbucker" term is sort of mis-leading - it could give the impression that these are mini-humbuckers, but the construction shows that they aren't





I removed the cover off the neck pickup by cutting through the soldered joint with a regular old utility knife - cutting through the joint works much better than trying to melt through the joint with a soldering iron



After I cut the cover loose, I warmed up the pickup with a heat gun to melt some of the wax potting so I could disassemble the guts - on Firebirds, the wax potting serves to hold and bind the parts together since there aren't any screws or mechanical fasteners to hold them together



You can see that the construction of these Epiphone pickups is true to the construction of the old Gibson Firebirds - nickel/silver baseplate, wood spacers, steel reflecting plate, and bar magnets inside the coil bobbins



Very similar construction, but further testing with a meter shows that these Firebirds are wound hotter than the old Gibsons, which is going to change their sound to some extent

The bridge pickup measures right at 8.20k DCR and the neck pickup measures 8.00k DCR

So, my finding show that yes, - these pickups are constructed like genuine old Gibson Firebirds, but they are wound hotter, which will give them a little different tone - more of a pronounced mid-range, and less treble compared to the originals


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[teletimetx]

Thanks for the surgery and data! At $30, it’s pretty tempting.

 

[mixmkr 2024]

That actually sounds like good news. They're back in stock at Sweetwater with nothing but 5 star reviews all over the internet. Not sure what gap they'd fill with my current guitars, but seems like a solid item from Epiphone. With these Epiphone and Squiers nowadays, it's easy to find a great guitar with a friendly budget.

30 bucks!!!... that's insane!
Thx for your writeup.

 

[telemnemonics]

Cool info!
Did you file into the covers and confirm there is not brass under the chrome or whatever the surface is?

 

[jvin248]

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Wound hotter could also be '43 wire instead of '42. Thinner vs thicker wire diameter. So see if you can check one vs the other.

Practical, assuming wire gage is the same, is pickup height and bass/treble tip setup can wash out those differences.

Key for me on pickup tone is the internal capacitance. Low gives more clarity and note separation, high gives muddy dark tones. Fortunately, if stuck with mud then using a series cap on the pickup can clean it up.

Overall that's a great construction catch they are so similar.

As far as pickup costs ... The Andertons/Chapman guitars were paying around $2-3/pickup when they started. Epiphone volume likely pays "pennies" for theirs.

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[old wrench]

Cool info!
Did you file into the covers and confirm there is not brass under the chrome or whatever the surface is?

No I didn't check the covers - just the baseplate

But it would be easy enough to check out the material the covers are made from

When I have a chance, I'll run a file over the lower part of cover to check, and then post up the result


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[guitar_paul1]

This is awesome info! Thanks! Do you by chance have a way of measuring the inductance?

 

[old wrench]

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Wound hotter could also be '43 wire instead of '42. Thinner vs thicker wire diameter. So see if you can check one vs the other.

Practical, assuming wire gage is the same, is pickup height and bass/treble tip setup can wash out those differences.

Key for me on pickup tone is the internal capacitance. Low gives more clarity and note separation, high gives muddy dark tones. Fortunately, if stuck with mud then using a series cap on the pickup can clean it up.

Overall that's a great construction catch they are so similar.

As far as pickup costs ... The Andertons/Chapman guitars were paying around $2-3/pickup when they started.

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It surely is possible that 43awg is used instead of 42awg

I think the only reliable way I could check that would be to actually measure the coil wire's diameter with a micrometer though, and I don't especially want to try to strip off the tape the protects the coil winds - the tape is really stuck to the coils very securely, it didn't want to come off when I attempted to peel it back

Maybe there is some data listed somewhere that states what gauge of wire is used on these? - I haven't looked into that

I can do some further testing with my LCR meter and record some more detailed specs - capacitance, henries, etc. - some further info would certainly help

Over the last two years, it seems that the price of pickup parts has at least doubled - along with just about everything else !!!

 

[old wrench]

This is awesome info! Thanks! Do you by chance have a way of measuring the inductance?

Yes I have a good accurate LCR meter, a DER DE-5000 that use for checking and evaluating my hand-wound pickups

I've learned quite a bit about testing by following along with the stellar testing work done by @Antigua Tele and having a few chats with him - Antigua and a couple of other folks have really done some great work on testing and evaluating pickups - they've cleared away a lot of the myths that surround pickup construction

I'll do a little more testing and post up the results


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[guitar_paul1]

The reason I asked about inductance is that was how I matched (or at least got kind of close) the pickup that was in my old fender 400 pedal steel.
That was my only foray into pickup winding.
I thought I was being really clever and then discovered I had re-invented the Z-coil for 10 string pedal steel, but with the same inductance and similar tone to the Fender pickup. Buddy Emmons did it first.

 

[old wrench]

Thanks for the surgery and data! At $30, it’s pretty tempting.

That actually sounds like good news. They're back in stock at Sweetwater with nothing but 5 star reviews all over the internet. Not sure what gap they'd fill with my current guitars, but seems like a solid item from Epiphone. With these Epiphone and Squiers nowadays, it's easy to find a great guitar with a friendly budget.

30 bucks!!!... that's insane!
Thx for your writeup.

Yes - for $30 bucks, they are quite the good deal !!!

At that price, I was a little surprised to see construction which followed the old Firebirds so closely

But, when you have a dedicated production line and access to bulk pricing for materials, I guess you can do it - at $30 bucks a pair, I can't hardly even cover the cost of my materials


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[ahiddentableau]

Thank you for the pics and the very informative post.

 

[schmee]

Cool post. @old wrench
"That "Mini- Humbucker" term is sort of mis-leading - it could give the impression that these are mini-humbuckers, but the construction shows that they aren't"
Question: So you're saying these are not hum bucking?

 

[old wrench]

Cool post. @old wrench
"That "Mini- Humbucker" term is sort of mis-leading - it could give the impression that these are mini-humbuckers, but the construction shows that they aren't"
Question: So you're saying these are not hum bucking?

No, not all - I didn't mean to give anyone that impression

What I meant is that these pickups are not built like a typical "mini-humbucker", with the mini-humbuckers usual screw/polepieces

They have two separate coils and are wound to cancel out the hum - so their design is definitely "humbucking"


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[mexicanyella]

Another thanks for an interesting and detailed post/thread!

 

[Bruxist]

Thanks for this. I have a Cavalier Phoenix FB pickup and I liked it so much I bought and Epiphone Firebird guitar. They sound remarkably similar. I have bot had them in the same guitar but they are very close.

 

[Winky]

That "Mini- Humbucker" term is sort of mis-leading - it could give the impression that these are mini-humbuckers, but the construction shows that they aren't

Can you explain this a bit more? Don't they have two adjacent windings/magnets like a humbucker?

 

[SixStringSlinger]

Can you explain this a bit more? Don't they have two adjacent windings/magnets like a humbucker?

Firebird pickups are humbuckers, and they are miniature (at least compared to the big humbuckers you typically think of when you think "humbuckers"), but they're not what one typically refers to when using the term "mini-humbuckers". Those look just like your more typical Gibson humbucker, complete with cover and one row of adjustable pole pieces, just smaller (and with some tonal differences as a consequence of that). Their insides are also constructed similarly to bigger humbuckers, just smaller.

It's sort of like how PAF's, mini's, Firebirds, Filter'Trons and others are all correctly called "humbuckers", but when we say that word we typically mean these:

 

[johnb]

Do you have a photo of the top of the coils of the Epiphone FB PUPs?

 

[marc2211]

I have a 2023 Epiphone Firebird and can confirm that it does indeed sound like a ‘proper’ Firebird… much better than the recent Gibson ones I tested.

There is definitely some proper mojo in the PUs.