The Beatles were really talented, but...

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by bottlenecker, Sep 3, 2018.

  1. Frank'n'censed

    Frank'n'censed Doctor of Teleocity

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    You make a good point about some people, unfortunately, it doesn’t apply to this specific situation...you had to be there to see the smart*ss expression upon his face. He was also working at the time, wearing work boots & a safety vest, taking notes, while assessing the buildings exterior. I asked who he worked for, while taking out my cell phone...”I work for myself”. He made the goof comment to me as he was walking past my table & the building, probably thinking I didn’t hear him...no doubt, I caught him off guard, when he saw my size & wasn’t ready for my questions
     
  2. Frank'n'censed

    Frank'n'censed Doctor of Teleocity

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    Is that the best you can do? ;)
     
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  3. Frodebro

    Frodebro Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    It’s not even the best post in this thread...
     
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  4. awasson

    awasson Poster Extraordinaire

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    That is just so weird. It really sounds like he thought you did something offhand to him. Maybe your right and he does have some sort of condition and thought oh that’s the guy who wronged me in another life. Crazy town we live in.
     
  5. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    Of course what Frank'n'censed isn't telling us is that he was ONLY wearing the shirt, nothing else...
     
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  6. Frank'n'censed

    Frank'n'censed Doctor of Teleocity

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    Gotta ‘fess up, he also mentioned, “nice hat”, it was a Mexican World Cup ball cap. Because this is a Beatles thread, I didn’t go there. I know individuals, personally, who won’t wear a single item, with anything written on it...maybe that’s his deal?
     
  7. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    In fairness, I wrote that part BEFORE I found out there was a character limit.

    And there is a reason I never asked you that question before, which I'll be happy to discuss if you'll answer it.

    Instead of a notification that you've exceed the character limit, you should just get a popup that says "wouldn't it have been better to just play your guitar instead of writing all this?"

    I never saw that one, but I can agree with the sentiment. There's a difference though, between "yes the Beatles had a huge impact on music and culture, I'm just not into them" and "the Beatles weren't that special because they aren't that influential in my personal paradigm."

    I'm not sure it ever did. I only write long posts because I'm not always able to camp out on TDPRI all day to respond to stuff as it comes in, so I'm responding to 3-6 pages of posts at once.

    You know, I thought this might happen. I used a layman's approach to discussing recording technology, not a technical one. I figured that was appropriate since this is a guitar forum and not a recording forum, but clearly I need to go into more detail. Fair enough.


    You're right- I'd forgotten Atlantic had gotten theirs so early. For the first time in this thread, someone has actually employed a verifiable fact to counter one of my arguments. Thank you- I was beginning to think the art of debate was dead. It took until page 30-something, but still.

    However, this doesn't change the fact that multitrack recording still wan't the industry norm in 1962 and hardly anyone was using it.

    I don't know the exact timeline of adoption of multi-track decks in the music industry, but it is true that the standard for pop sessions in the UK was two track, and three track in the US until about 64/65. Now, we have to get technical- I used technical terms in a layman's way that was not technically correct earlier, but now we have to get on the same page.

    Les Paul didn't actually do "multi track" work until he got his Ampex 8-track in 1955. Before that, he employed a technique called "sound on sound" which had been around for years and involved layering recordings on top of each other on the same mono track. Here's a cool article about that which puts the state of multi track track recording in the late '50s into perspective:

    https://www.mixonline.com/recording/ampex-sel-sync-1955-367111

    From the article:

    That leads us to a discussion of what "multi track" means, and the philosophies behind its use in the late '50s/early '60s.

    The early three and four "track" recorders weren't "multi track" the way we think of it today- they lacked the vital "sel-sync" component that allowed users of Ampex's 8-track to overdub and punch in on top of existing tracks. The early decks weren't designed to be used as creative tools, they solved a technical problem- recording a performance to mono meant you had to get the mix exactly right as the performance went down, and whatever happened during a take, you were stuck with. You could always record another take, but time was money- pop groups didn't spend months or years making records in those days, the expectation was to get three or four songs completed in a four or five hour session. John Entwistle from the Who used that to his advantage when cutting "Substitute" in 1966, he cranked up his amp in the middle of a take and played a bass solo without telling anyone about it beforehand, and that wound up being the master take.

    So then, having your vocalist on a different track meant you could alter the all-important vocal level at a later stage. In the UK they recorded the backing on one track, vocal on the other, and later mixed to mono- in the US they did the backing track in stereo. So "multi track" yes, but not how we think of it today. When sel-sync decks became more widespread, the philosophy remained the same at first- divide a live performance up into separate tracks to be remixed later. Les Paul was using it differently of course, but as pointed out above, he was no longer culturally relevant by the time he got his Ampex monster up and running.

    What the Beatles popularized was the use of multitrack recording as a creative tool, to make recordings that weren't just live performances divided into separate tracks to be mixed back together later. Once they demonstrated that, everyone demanded it and the floodgates opened. That was a pretty huge ("foundational" maybe?) component of all pop music created in their wake.

    I'm not following you- it should be fairly obvious that the work of Les Paul, while groundbreaking in a technical way, wasn't as widely influential as that of the Beatles (he didn't invent sel-sync, either- Universal Audio had a similar concept they never brought to market because they figured it was too expensive and no one would want it. He did inspire Ampex to create the first commercially available machine though... which was a commercial flop because as UA realized, no one wanted it). In what was was anything I wrote illogical? Atlantic had an operational 8 track facility in 1958, but they failed to make any creative use of it until after the Beatles showed what it was capable of. If I'm missing a recording of Sgt. Pepper level significance recorded at Atlantic prior to 1967, please let me know.

    Don't you think there's a difference between accosting people on the street, and participating in an online discussion forum where all parties voluntarily join or leave the conversation as they choose? If you find this discussion uninteresting or distressing, may I suggest you exercise the latter?

    Man, I feel bad for you guys who are held at gunpoint and forced to read threads you're not interested in. My thoughts and prayers go out to you.

    "I want to kiss her but, she won't let me..."
     
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  8. soulgeezer

    soulgeezer Poster Extraordinaire

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    OK, now you're just screwing with us -- tl;dr
     
  9. studio1087

    studio1087 Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I have a John Lennon plastic action figure so he must be cooler than other entertainers who have never been plastic action figures.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. bottlenecker

    bottlenecker Friend of Leo's

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    It's all been covered already in this thread. How about we just put my original post and your first response in a never ending loop?
     
  11. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

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    If I was screwing with you, I'd have stuck some Greek text or the Declaration of Independence in there somewhere. But, since you didn't read it, maybe I did...
     
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  12. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    It's nice that this whole issue finally got resolved :)
     
  13. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    披头士乐队是最好的, 我希望他们能在 Washington State University 这样我就能飞下来看到他们
     
  14. Topazthecat

    Topazthecat TDPRI Member

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    Hi,

    I'm honestly not a musician but I have been a big Beatles fan since I started collecting their albums at age 9, I got my first Beatles book for my 11th birthday,and I had every album by age 13.when I was 13 a guy who was 15 at school gave me his copy of the only authorized great Beatles biography by Hunter Davies that first came out in 1968 and he updated it several times over the years.


    I was born after 1964 too,and I'm asking if it's OK to post a lot of strong great information that totally debunks and corrects the sadly all too common inaccurate ignorant things that were said about The Beatles on here and just about everywhere especially the ludicrous,ignorant boy band myth nonsense.
     
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  15. Topazthecat

    Topazthecat TDPRI Member

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    John's first wife Cynthia Lennon who was married to John for 7 years, and his girlfriend for 3, said John only ever hit her twice *before they were married* when he was a psychologically messed up drunk 20 year old guy.Cynthia also said she would always be in love with John Lennon and she was married 3 times after him.






    John Lennon Changed A 180% For The Better & Became An Outspoken pro-feminist and Nurturing Feminist House Husband and Father to Yoko and their young son Sean amazingly in just a few years,and when John was a very young guy he was a psychologically messed up (from the many traumas he had as a child and teen), drunk guy often getting into fist fights with men and hitting girlfriends,not wives though.



    John still obviously had his Y chromosome,and a lot more testosterone than women,because he became a feminist at only age 29,he became a house husband at age 35 and reversed gender roles with his wife Yoko who worked in their business office,and sadly,he was tragically shot and killed at only age 40 by a crazy horrible one time big Beatles fan just hours after John was kind enough to autograph his new album for him and who was a big fan since age 11 and John was his favorite Beatle, Here is my new blog that I hope you will be interested in, John Lennon Became A Feminist Nurturing House Husband & Father Thanks To His Relationship With Yoko Ono


    Here is my recent blog about this,


    https://johnlennonbecameafeminist.wordpress.com/



    [​IMG]



    John Lennon Became a Feminist & Nurturing House Husband & Father Thanks To His Relationship With Yoko Ono
     
  16. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    After 300 posts nobody is really listening anymorr, to the extent that they were listening anyway. You might consider a new thread. And make sure you start with a ridiculous premise, like the Beatles were the "other apostles" or that they invented melody.

    Good luck. I think the fact that this thread has gone on for more then 40 pages is a testament to their importance to rock and culture.
     
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  17. bftfender

    bftfender Friend of Leo's

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    interesting turn for me...growing up on FM radio..sorta listened but was always seeking heavier..from Zep -Sabbath on up..not...as we come down a bit from the playing metal years

    Its like a whole new world to me..that i once knew..but now really want to know..The Stones & Beatles-Who-Kinks..all the Motown & jazz..even some of the real country..it's good...good songs...
     
  18. AAT65

    AAT65 Friend of Leo's

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    I can’t believe this thread has started up again... please let it die!!
     
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  19. Torren61

    Torren61 Friend of Leo's

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    The thing about the Beatles that I have only recently realized is that when anyone says they were the greatest band of all time is that you HAVE to add George Martin, Geoff Emerick and Brian Epstein in with them. I just don’t think they would be the legendary band that we know today without the other three helping them achieve their sound and their exposure.
     
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  20. Torren61

    Torren61 Friend of Leo's

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    Should we just Let It Be?
     
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