The Arts Are Undervalued in Our Culture.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ElJay370, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. Skydog1010

    Skydog1010 Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

    Age:
    66
    Posts:
    1,053
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2019
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Totally agree, but I have made some very substantial income in several hobbyist endeavors, sketch art being at the top of the list.

    Used to mod motorcycles and sell them rather quickly, then I got old. I break even tinkering with guitars. I have yet to write that one blockbuster tune. Kids stories I do for free.

    Live your life, love your life, don't measure it in coin.
     
  2. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

    Posts:
    8,306
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2014
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I’m glad you agree with me in your wiser years, though I never put surviving down on any lower tier. I survived a lot of crap, my ancestors survived a lot of genocide, and I continue to survive throughout moments of the day. I’m thriving now in many ways, and art is the mechanism which I intend to encode stories—that passing down of knowledge you speak of. I’m not talking exclusively about cutesy illustrated kid’s book, but it can include that too. By this measure how can you assert art “has been and always will be a luxury”? Nonsense, and you described why precisely.
     
    telemnemonics likes this.
  3. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,206
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Alaska
    Ha, yep. I guess the fact that I can wander into an art museum to appreciate Monet's brush strokes and his use of light and color and then stop off at the grocery store on my way home would be an example of balancing survival with art appreciation.

    If I wanted to take "Nympheas, temps gris" home with me, well that'd be about $12 million. And I'd classify that as "a luxury I can't really afford." But the Beatles Anthology is a very reasonably priced luxury that I still enjoy from time to time.
     
    rand z likes this.
  4. PlainAllman

    PlainAllman Tele-Holic

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    663
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Location:
    Van Zandt Co, Texas
    I’m not exactly sure what culture you’re referring to where art is undervalued. I don’t believe we’ve set up a system that discourages. Just as it is said “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. The same applies to art as much as anything. Who can decide what art or artist deserves to be funded over another. The best way to determine the quality of anything or what deserves funding is a free market. That is the only objective method.
     
    Thinliner likes this.
  5. rand z

    rand z Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,005
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    Location:
    trumansburg, ny
    We need the artist's to point us in the next direction.

    The VISIONAIRY'S.

    That's, imo, why we are having problems finding THE NEXT DIRECTION.

    (BTW, I firmly believe that "technology" is not the next direction. It has put us in a big hole.)
     
    P Thought and Obsessed like this.
  6. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,931
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    I find American attitudes about the arts baffling.

    First, I don't get why "art" has to mean hanging a painting or doing a performance in a fancy public building. Art is simply the act of creative expression- we're all capable of that. Sure none of us are as good as playing the guitar as Hendrix or Segovia, but that doesn't mean what we do isn't capable of being entertaining/enlightening/educational. I walked into a pub in Dublin one night not long ago, and the regulars were singing traditional folk songs. This wasn't a tourist bar, this was just a neighborhood pub. Paint, write, play. Brighten the corner where you are.

    I've also never understood why people who choose to pursue "arts" with a limited audience and no commercial value feel somehow entitled to my tax dollars. I really don't care if my city has a ballet company, a symphony or an art museum- I say let the people who value those things pay for them. Take that money and give my kid's teacher a raise, god knows she deserves the money and does more good in my community than somebody who plays the tuba or dances in a funny costume.
     
  7. PlainAllman

    PlainAllman Tele-Holic

    Age:
    44
    Posts:
    663
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Location:
    Van Zandt Co, Texas
    Could you be more specific what you mean about Americans attitudes? I’m not trying to be facetious or controversial. I just don’t think one particular attitude about art encompasses all Americans so I just want to know where you’re coming from exactly. Also if we know where you’re coming from we might be more able to unbaffle you. :D
     
  8. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,250
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Location:
    USA

    I just came here to leave a little Maslow. Some stay low, some go high.


    [​IMG]
     
    rand z and DekeDog like this.
  9. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    293
    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Location:
    Carolina
    The capitalist system works when one person pays, in one way or another, for something someone else has, whether it be labor or a commodity. The value of that item is worth whatever a person is willing to pay.

    An athlete plays a game primarily because he loves it enough to spend the time perfecting his performance. An artist works for the love of (his) art. In both cases, the artist or athlete is compensated as consumers are willing to pay.

    I'm old enough to remember when minor league baseball players had day jobs. Our culture has evolved into one that values sports far more than art. That obviously works out better for the athlete. But amazingly, there are artists who make seven figures for one piece. Unfortunately, for them, most of them are dead.

    This "painting" by Mark Bradford (living), Helter Skelter I, sold for $12 million in 2018.

    [​IMG]

    The question of education and funding is a reflection of how a culture values the subject. Sports often generates it's own funds, but often it is given preference beyond its actual value to the general student population. It is what it is. Just a reflection of how our priorities have become skewed, esp. in education.

    It's also interesting that many, if not most, actors do not achieve financial success through academic institutions. In all cases of the arts and sports, a relatively low percentage of people achieve financial independence through that "craft."
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
    backporchmusic likes this.
  10. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,206
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Alaska
    I like Maslow, he's hilarious.

    Zy58qR3.png
     
    P Thought and PlainAllman like this.
  11. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    41,167
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2011
    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Men have died from time to time, and worms have eaten them, but not for love.
     
    SecretSquirrel and bgmacaw like this.
  12. beyer160

    beyer160 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,931
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
    Location:
    On Location
    What you say is true, but it still doesn't justify spending public funds on something that has such little value to society in general. What if I wanted to open a museum dedicated to used guitar strings, and since such an endeavor would never pay for itself, demanded to pay for it with tax money?

    I would argue that museums dedicated to science and history do pass the cost/value proposition since they have practical educational value.

    Overall, I don't think government and arts are a good mix for a variety of reasons that really shouldn't be discussed here. Suffice it to say that I believe the arts are something that should exist as part of everyday life, not just enshrined behind glass or something bored schoolkids are dragged out to be force-fed.
     
    Thinliner and DekeDog like this.
  13. tele12

    tele12 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,479
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2006
    Location:
    NY
    I think a big part of the problem is every bit of nassicistic self-expression is called "Art" these days.
    It has always been hard to make a living in the Arts, Sports and entertainment , for the most part it will only be the best who will and then only if they offer something people are willing to pay for.
     
    DekeDog likes this.
  14. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,793
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Location:
    Near Athens GA USA
    I'm looking forward to a gritty reboot of As You Like It
     
  15. Old Deaf Roadie

    Old Deaf Roadie Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    922
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2017
    Location:
    Oregon
    I believe the arts are not undervalued, just underfunded. Just ask the art teacher at your kid's school, if they even have one anymore.
     
    DekeDog likes this.
  16. Manual Slim

    Manual Slim Tele-Afflicted

    Posts:
    1,568
    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    Location:
    Up around the bend
    Nice one! We’re getting there! We can do it!
     
  17. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    293
    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Location:
    Carolina
    I get that, and don't necessarily disagree. But our cultural zeitgeist is shaped by the media and by our government, a sad but inescapable truth. The arts and the sciences would be far better priorities than what we now hold as valuable, no?
     
  18. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Ad Free Member

    Posts:
    20,522
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2011
    Location:
    Around
    It was only less than a thousand years ago
    where jesters (comedian artists), poets, musicians and artists
    were paid by State or wealthy land owners
    just for being around.
     
    stevemc likes this.
  19. claes

    claes Tele-Holic

    Posts:
    948
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Location:
    sweden
    There is some very good arguments that the "Van gogh myth" (the myth about the starving artists) is just a myth and Van gogh the exeption.
    I've read some very intresting articles that contradicts that idea and that in reality talented people is recognized more often than not at a really young age.
     
    nojazzhere likes this.
  20. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    293
    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Location:
    Carolina
    Or maybe she'll decide she doesn't want his financial aid and want a Bohemian lifestyle free of all the capitalist trappings and materialistic consumerism. Or if she's that smart, she'll figure out a way to to thrive on her own terms. Fine arts degrees do not necessarily consign a person to financial failure. And she might be a lot richer person for it.
     
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.