The Arts Are Undervalued in Our Culture.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ElJay370, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    Will you be my new spirit animal? (There's no pay, but the upshot is you set your own hours and the work is totally easy)
     
  2. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    and yet in a pinch I'd rather have a pizza than a new Kate Perry song...
     
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  3. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    sorry I'm under contract to Tony Robbins..

    what a smile..
     
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  4. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    I love this post. I have an exceptional granddaughter, the daughter of two PhD's. My son is an engineer like me. Not bragging, just stating, my wife and I put both of our kids through private universities and supported them through graduate school. They had no loans when they graduated but they had to make a promise. That promise was that their children would get exactly what they got with no consideration to cost. My son said, “No problem. Ava (7 years old) is really smart. She reads and does math way beyond her grade level. She's trying to decide if she wants to go to Cal Tech or Stanford in robotics. A smart girl like her will get a free ride.” I reminded him of his promise and pointed out that if she decides on fine arts at Brown, not only will he be paying for it, he’ll be supporting her for the rest of her life.
     
  5. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  6. davidge1

    davidge1 Friend of Leo's

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    I don't think the arts are necessarily undervalued. The main form of "art" in a modern society is design. Design is everywhere you look... everything has to be designed. "Graphic artists" are actually designers, and they are very often well-paid.
     
  7. The Angle

    The Angle Tele-Holic

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    True, but if we rely solely on private funding of the arts, say goodbye to the Statue of Liberty, the Lincoln Memorial, Mount Rushmore, Coit Tower, Astronomer's Monument at Griffith Observatory, and hundreds of other, smaller public works of art that symbolize our national spirit. Those things wouldn't exist without government backing. Private funding is essential, but there are many things it can't or won't tackle.
     
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  8. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    Those are examples of things that have a wider purpose or aim that benefits all people within a country. As you said, they symbolize national spirit, project power, memorialize our history so that we don't forget the lessons of the past. We don't look at the Statute of Liberty and think, wow, the female form is beautiful. No, it sparks ideas about the country that it serves. All appropriate things for a government to back. And there are countless other artistic endeavors that it has no business paying for, Robert Maplethorp or Andy Warhol's works, as examples. But again, funding doesn't cause art to be created. The human experience does, and it will happen whether there's a paycheck in it or not.

    If the G-men are paying for your tune, they get to tell you how it should go. I can't imagine any self respecting artist seeking that out.

    And to @BigDaddyLH, everything displayed in the Smithsonian serves a government purpose, whether they educate or extol culturally significant artifacts or moments, or they tell important stories that strengthen our connection to our country or world. The Smithsonian isn't art for art's sake, it's earning its keep as a tool for the government. Not saying its a bad thing, just sayin.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  9. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    shutdown, no , garage sale yes. they have so much stuff they don't have room to display more than a fraction of it. better to sell it or build more museums to display it, than to fill the basement and pay to store that which we cannot share, though pay we must...
     
  10. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Friend of Leo's

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  11. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    original financing was donated by
    John Smith's Son so they called it the Smith son ian to make it fancy and stuff. They used to have 2 mona Lisa and a buffalo that could juggle oranges when they first opened, but now they're all high class and its just engravings of french ladies in their underpants and abstract sculptures of withered trees..
     
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  12. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    you know in europe they often have trusts that are created to maintain public works, you know a large amount of money is collected and invested and the profits are used as perpetual fund to pay for upkeep.
    makes more sense then paying taxes over and over and over.

    If you know you have fixed costs, find a way to provide fixed funding.
     
  13. ElJay370

    ElJay370 Tele-Meister

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    Great art is generally created out of a deep, existential desire. Whether it's worship, social commentary, or aesthetics. Being great at something takes commitment. If you decide to commit to being an artist, it's probably because you're consumed by your inner drive to be one.

    Obviously you need food, clothing, shelter, and several other things for basic survival. To avoid death.

    But what are you avoiding death for? To live a dull and uninspiring existence devoid of creativity?

    Humans aren't placed here simply to survive and procreate. We are given an intellect that needs to be engaged.

    Maybe my opinion of the importance and relevance of art isn't shared by some of you. That's fine. But to me, art is deserving of much more consideration than just as a commodity to be bought and sold, a string of pleasant sounds to fill time, or something pretty to hang over your couch.

    The point I'm trying to make is that choosing the path of the artist...doing the thing that you are driven to do and doing a thing that (to me) absolutely makes an essential contribution to humanity...means that in the current social hierarchy, unless you are extremely lucky, you'll suffer. Both socially and financially. Sure, you shouldn't make art for the money or to satisfy anyone but yourself, but if you make it your primary focus, chances are you'll be doing it from the bottom rungs of society's ladder. I believe that reality keeps many potentially great artists from making it their pursuit. Because you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that faces more social stigma than a poor person.

    The creation of this (to me) important, relevant thing isn't encouraged or valued enough. Being an obedient worker or exploiting others for financial gain is encouraged and valued too much.

    But that's just like, my opinion, man.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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  14. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    To point No. 1. Uh, yeah. But then again, why do you assume everyone else is living a dull life devoid of creativity?

    To point No. 2. Hmm. I wouldn't say that is true of the current social hierarchy only. I'd say its true of the entirety of history. That's why "starving artist" is such an old cliche. Cause it's always been that way. Luck has very little to do with it, and no matter how talented you are you are going to suffer anyway. Because suffering is, like art itself, also a necessity in life.

    We're not really plowing new ground here. And I wish I was paid more too, btw. ;)
     
  15. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    How can it be a viable way to make a living when everyone wants music for free and everyone with an iphone thinks they are Ansel Adams?
     
  16. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    Ha. I could throw a rock and hit an "Alaskan photographer." And, actually, I'd like to do just that. Bunch of lazy hacks.

    Want to impress me? Find beauty and majesty in Peoria, Illinois.
     
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  17. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    DSC06918_zpse9aa01e7.jpg
     
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  18. Wildcard_35

    Wildcard_35 Tele-Meister

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    I think you make an interesting point, but I have to disagree. I work as a graphic designer at a museum, so I feel like I come from a place of knowledge on the subject. I don't make a lot of money, but I make enough to get by and have some fun, pay the mortgage on my house, and go to the movies with my girlfriend more than I should (ha!) I also spend more money than I should on gear, but everyone needs toys, right?

    In my coming up as a creative person/artist/designer/whatever, there wasn't much slack cut. It has been pretty much sink or swim. I have applied for countless creative jobs, been more or less insulted by the "gatekeepers" in the advertising/design business at interviews when I was in my early 20's. But I was stubborn. I kept pushing myself to learn more. I started at a daily newspaper laying out pages, learning what Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator tricks I could in my free time and applying for better gigs. I finally got a few!

    Anyway, in my current job If I turn in something to my boss that sucks, it comes back to my desk with red marks all over it and a sinking feeling in my stomach. Luckily, I have been doing this for about 20 years now professionally and I have a few tricks up my sleeve to make a project more appealing to the customer. Keep learning tricks, keep leveling up. Try not to take it too personally when someone doesn't like your stuff, because that will happen.

    I have yet to receive any of these participation trophies I keep hearing about. I don't know that I'd want one!

    Anyway, I'm not sure what I'd do if I had it to do over again. Maybe I'd be an Winnabago salesman making fat crazy dollars and have a wall of Marshall amps! Maybe I'd do something weirder and be a performance artist whose gig is to roll up into a blanket and pretend to be a burrito!
     
  19. The Angle

    The Angle Tele-Holic

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    And everyone who can type thinks they can write. As a writer, I've always been jealous of the visual artists I work with, because people can look at their work and instantly see it's far better than anything the viewer could draw. It takes work to figure out whether a 70,000-word manuscript is any good. If you just glance through a paragraph or two, most people's response is, "eh, I could do that."

    Which is why when a writer meets someone who says "I'm a writer too," their first question usually is "what have you written?"

    My first job out of college was as a newspaper reporter in Peoria. Beauty, yes. Majesty, maybe not so much. A lot depends on which way you turn your head.
     
  20. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    Ha! I tried to get on with the same paper. Ended up in Sterling covering county government, crazy locals and perennial flooding on the Rock River. "Worst I've ever seen it in 25 years," said the guy who said the exact same thing last year.

    "It sounded just like a freight train," said the tornado survivor. Ho. Hum.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2019
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