The Arts Are Undervalued in Our Culture.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ElJay370, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    mic drop.

    Yep. Totally agree with this. So we need schools that prepare our kids to be successful pipefitters, auto parts store managers, accountants and merchants so they get really rich and support the arts. It's a perfect system when you think about it. Artists prosper when we prosper.
     
  2. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Some of these pursuits have far wider application than do others.

    I'm not sure training for a baseball team creates a person better able to make life decisions. Maybe, but since the prospect of a Pro Career is usually a mean trick, maybe not. I see the sons and daughters of the Rich and Famous telling us they intend to study acting the rest of their lives and promise never to have a real job, and I don't envy them.
     
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  3. Erebus

    Erebus Tele-Meister

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    Art and music can be so subjective that it becomes hard to place a value on it. What one person considers ‘art’ another may not understand.

    If I ask you to change my water heater, or write some lines of code, it is pretty easy to quantify the value you have added. Otherwise I agree on all points
     
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  4. boris bubbanov

    boris bubbanov Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    Veering way off the subject material here, I have some friends that have small grandchildren.

    And they young'uns have seen all this "mic drop" stuff and now these kids throw everything on the ground. Everything.

    We've grown ourselves a whole generation of Litterbugs! :^
     
  5. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    Ha, love it. My teenager and his hammerhead friends have unfortunately taught my 10-year old a boat-load of, what I'd call "street vocabulary." So I feel your pain. LOL. Oops, sorry; I feel ya, dog.
     
  6. chulaivet1966

    chulaivet1966 Tele-Afflicted

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    I concur with the above.

    Bluntly....my commentary on this subject?

    The desire to pursue one's personal artistic passion does not necessarily translate to making a living and/or raising a family and providing a safe, comfortable life style for them.
    It's a lofty, wishful goal for most that aspire to actually making a living at any art form.
    If one does spend their life pursuing their 'art' that's fine but I tend to think an actual paying demographic in this context is, and has been, very small.

    It's also very subjective....I look at a painting and think 'man, that's some fine artistic talent'.
    That's as far as it goes and I would not be spending my hard earned money for it which is not to diminish one's obvious 'talent'.
    Just a momentary 'pleasant distraction' as the OP states and is not a reflection any "undervaluing"....it's just society driven.

    As JuneauMike states: "They aren't the things that make life worth living. Food, shelter, a safe place to raise your kids, the mechanisms to pass on knowledge and survival skills to offspring, those are the things that make life worth living. Art has always been and will always be a luxury."

    Generally speaking, I'd like to see all one's pursuits pay off in their life.

    However...we all have to make good choices regarding our personal futures and not blame societal trends/disinterest if our dreams don't work out as planned.
    Unfortunately....life is hard, life isn't fair, no one owes us any recognition or accolades, we're all solely accountable for our own life planning/decisions....end of story.....it kinda sucks sometimes. :)

    A good day to all......
     
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  7. meric

    meric Tele-Holic

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    Nobody needs an artist.
    Nobody needs a musician.
    They are kinda fun to have around if you have a surplus of food and comfort and safety.
    Get off of my lawn.
     
  8. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    It's not sad, it's a wonderful exercise in human cooperation. And you are making a false premise by saying that people have to produce something that makes money to be deemed successful. Not true at all. Some amazing and wonderful people have died penniless, and that did nothing to diminish the value they brought to the lives of others.

    We make money to feed our families. But that doesn't define our value to those around us. Money is important because it can be converted into food, or shelter, or art. But it is not the most important thing in life nor is it an effective measure of someone's worth.
     
  9. BorderRadio

    BorderRadio Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Everyone can't be an artist, let alone one that people revere so much as to allow a comfortable livelihood.

    I'm an artist. It's a struggle they say, it's a hustle. I'd have to market myself as the product. I put the brush/roller down so often, it's hardly worth mentioning until I build up more work. Time and bills demand I focus on reliable income. If one day I do something great, it's not because of the schooling, the training, my use of social media. It's because of hard work, even if that work was in another field doing things that have no artistically redeemable qualities. My skills, well they have helped me keep an edge in my professional career, but funny, being an illustrator would limit my advancement. The academic end is the only thing that keeps me moving ahead--and doing all things as well as possible (being well rounded). That said, I feel the arts and music have become neglected in the present overculture, and it will affect the overall quality of education. This is why funding such subjects is important to me.

    JM might suggest it isn't art that makes life worth living. I can see those merely surviving coming to those conclusions. But in the space between harvesting your last crop, fitting the last pipe, arc welding the last joint, and going to bed while the sun still shines is a good opportunity to make life art, art life. It's not hard, really. It's the self-centered attitudes, the artist-as-a-celebrity idealism, that easily distorts the art-life/life-art, if you know what I mean. The exposure, the education and reverence for the arts, that alone will make a platform for more people to live an artful, art-filled life, which is good.
     
  10. Keefsdad

    Keefsdad Tele-Holic

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    As a musician I wish i had got a University degree in music. That way you can at least make a living teaching.
     
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  11. Boubou

    Boubou Doctor of Teleocity Gold Supporter

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    Don’t you want to be a productive member of society?
     
  12. tfarny

    tfarny Friend of Leo's

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    The professional artist as a full time job can only basically exist in a certain kind of society - either a really prosperous one where lots of people have money and time to kill, or a really centralized one where the super rich / powerful get to commission artists on retainer, a la Mozart and every Renaissance painter.
    Most people on this forum have lived their lives in some combination of both these situations. It isn't really the "norm" historically, where the vast majority of artists have done their work as a side passion or just as a normal part of life. You think those cave painters didn't have to hunt mastodons or clean up the cave after parties?
    I think it's a crime that arts ed has been basically removed from US Schools, but not because it will create a shortage of full time blues guitarists. It's because having some creative outlet - not to make an income, but to enrich your life and express yourself - is an important part of a fulfilling life, and a community with lots of passionate part time artists is going to be a place where I want to live.
     
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  13. jhundt

    jhundt Doctor of Teleocity

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    it's funny how focused we are on "hard work", as if that is the one thing that makes life.
     
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  14. Danjabellza

    Danjabellza Friend of Leo's

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    Just today I read a review of the cinematic masterpiece “tombstone” that was quite disparaging. The arts are truly lost if we’re to this point. Next people will be saying they don’t have a fondness for Mel Brooks or that the police academy films are less than wonderful.
     
  15. meric

    meric Tele-Holic

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    Hard work is not what makes life. Hard work makes it possible to afford the things that make life.
     
  16. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    art is how we talk to the gods
    and how they talk to us

    it exists independent of economic system
    as can clearly be seen in the cave art in france
    and australia, the intuit carving ivory.

    the temples and unknown structures like Gobekli Teppi
    (potbelly hill)

    art is currently the mistress of commerce and its
    a bit of an abusive relationship.

    everybody loves art, but few are in a position to pay for it.
    do it for love and realize, like pro sports, only a tiny fraction
    of people will ever make enough to have a decent living from
    their efforts.
     
  17. KC

    KC Friend of Leo's

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  18. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    its a symbiotic relationship, the two aspects are entwined like the yin/yang. A man without work becomes a stilted creature, and so a man without the pleasures of life also.

    the effort becomes finding the balance and maintaining it through out all the days you receive.
     
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  19. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

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    Yeah, I used to be pretty arrogant about the people I see around me when I was younger too. Just a bunch of drones shuffling off to their desk job. I was oblivious to the fact that the pipefitter was capable of contemplating deep philosophical questions on his drive home at night, or that the accountant could possibly feel a piece of music as profoundly as I did. Or that a commercial fisherman would stop every now and then just to soak in the power and majesty of his surroundings.

    I'm a lot older and wiser now though. And I've come to understand every sad drone sitting in traffic with me and just "surviving" is also chasing beauty and meaning every bit as hard as I am. And if you really get to know them, you'd find that most of them are creating art on some level too.

    We don't need to teach human beings to revere art anymore than we need to teach them to drink water. They are naturally driven to both.
     
  20. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I'm certain it's been said in this thread already, but the market determines art's financial worth/reward.

    And, that's as it should be, with these intangibles
     
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