The Arts Are Undervalued in Our Culture.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ElJay370, Aug 8, 2019.

  1. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    59
    Posts:
    16,426
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    WRT the question at the end, I don't personally have animosity toward athletes, but I do note that the promise of becoming a big star seems to mislead many kids away from any great respect and desire for scholastic achievement.
    Further, old artists I've known and in sad many cases watched wither and die as all humans do, continued to make art, even as they went blind or lost the ability to stand up and walk etc.
    Old athletes, whether stars or discarded in college, cannot generally keep doing their craft into old age.
    Certainly some old artists lose heart and drive or whatever it takes to keep working.
    Some also give up for other reasons, one painter who had a strong local following over several decades somehow grew bitter over his constant financial struggle despite hauling the next body of work to galleries year after year.
    IDK where or why he lost heart, and it was too bad because he had been inspiring to watch work and to discuss art on a practical level with. He had been so excited by and about making art, and also loved teaching at a small local art school and privately.
    Can't blame the NEA or the NBA for his eventual loss of momentum!

    An artist I knew who had the first one woman show at the Smithsonian lived in a cottage in Maine, and for years after becoming legally blind, she continued to work with one of those giant magnifying lamps over the drafting table.
    She never seemed to have any interest in or fondness for fame, despite being "somewhat of an art star".
    At the end her mind was still sharp but she was in a nursing home, and few visited.

    I think the human nature you suppose on artists, suggesting that "artists are human beings", is maybe as you said, "where you and I fundamentally part ways".

    Maybe a lot of normal human beings truly want fame, and seek it or idealize it.
    That has not been my observation of artists, who primarily want to make art, which is a personal introspective endeavor.
    Being a rock star artist is probably repulsive to most artists, though all would love to be able to make a comfortable living.
    I'm not even sure artists want to be the best in town, like your best plumber comparison.

    In a manner I'd say yes, it may well be correct to generalize that "artists are exempt from that aspect of human nature that is innate in everyone else in Western society".
    But you have defined what desire they have in a number of ways, and I have been responding to your suggestion that artists want fame, want to be big stars like your comparison to Andy Warhol art star status.

    When you lowered the definition of what you assume all artists want, to: "being universally lauded"; and ask me if I'm saying that "They don't want critical recognition for their work"; then I'd say those are more likely to fit many artists goals in their work.
    Maybe not "universally lauded" as much as hoping for "critical recognition of their work".

    If we go back to your statement about "people, and their essential and necessary predisposition to act in their own self interest" is certainly a statement I would generally agree with.

    But combine that with "where you and I fundamentally part ways", and one needs to consider that fame and art star status is for many artists NOT "in their own self interest"!

    Maybe I'm over supposing to suggest that IME the artists I've known or followed who sought fame have not been the most gifted at doing much that is deeply meaningful in art.
    Though we see many through history who sought to make deeply meaningful art and ended up with fame as well.

    But art star fame is just not what I see as a core desire of working artists.

    What society props up as the artist in media and history may ignore 80% of working artists who have local respect and modest art based income that allows them to make their art in peace and quiet.

    Thinking here about many artists and their work, I realize what a poor job I do of appreciating the art I own.
    Paintings are stacked up unseen in basement and garage because I just don't have the space to give all of them.
    When I check the level in the home heating oil tank I have to go around a dozen or more big paintings leaning against it.
    A quick count in the living area I find 80 hanging pieces of art, only a few of which are by art stars.
    One piece I've had for 55 years is an original Walt Disney, done by Walt himself, of the ugly duckling looking at his reflection in the water. Walt was an artist I guess before he became a filmmaker star. But not to make pieces to hang in galleries. Hard to say what drove that particular man.

    In the garage I have a stack of prints by Hokusai and some of his peers, all needing to be framed to hang.
    These are actual original prints by the artists or from their workshop, no repros.

    Really in a way art is not properly respected in my home, where so much of it is unseen.

    Takes a lot of money to manage art, never mind to make, store, frame, market and sell it.
     
    DekeDog likes this.
  2. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

    Age:
    59
    Posts:
    16,426
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2010
    Location:
    Maine
    Yeah see this is central to what I respect about you here.

    Seriously, I'd prefer a discussion with those who avoid regurgitating, even if we don't agree.
     
    magicfingers99 and DekeDog like this.
  3. DrPepper

    DrPepper Tele-Afflicted

    Age:
    60
    Posts:
    1,550
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Location:
    Texas
    If you truly have talent and smarts, why waste money on formal education?
     
  4. DekeDog

    DekeDog Tele-Meister

    Posts:
    192
    Joined:
    May 12, 2019
    Location:
    Carolina
    Yes.
     
  5. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,018
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Alaska
    Uh, because misdirected talent, or undirected talent is wasted. And there's no such thing really as "smarts." When you don't feed your brain, it withers. When you don't respect and challenge your talent, it sits idle until its really no use to anyone, including yourself.

    You take in knowledge and expel ideas. It really is that simple. Without a foundation for your craft, and without learning the history of those who came before you, you will never truly come to understand your own talent. Like a toddler playing with a shotgun, you might get a lucky shot, but its unlikely you'll have a sustainable body of work that shows depth and growth. You won't truly control your own message.
     
    ElJay370 likes this.
  6. 1293

    1293 Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    7,201
    Joined:
    May 18, 2006
    My son is moving up to middle school tomorrow. We dropped some stuff off today. Plenty of great student art on the walls. Here's one of the music rooms:

    20190904_145920.jpg 20190904_145924.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
    SecretSquirrel and DekeDog like this.
  7. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,131
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    if you have talent and smarts, you'll realize life is an education in itself if you just keep your eyes open and your brain working....
     
  8. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    2,131
    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Location:
    atlanta
    I liked the art on the walls, very minimalist, sort of mid century Soviet Union. Gray, large, ambigious, your kids gonna love it. Might want to have him practice his goose stepping in case they have a marching band..
     
    JuneauMike likes this.
  9. JuneauMike

    JuneauMike Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,018
    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Location:
    Alaska
    Yep. Our school district doesn't give a single dime to athletics and we have music and art teachers in all our schools and our middle school has an impressive collection of cellos and violins and other instruments. My son played a cello in 6th grade and has had no interest in the instrument since then. Parents pay a small fortune for their kids to participate in sports, the kids fund raise relentlessly and generally kids in low income households don't play sports because the costs are prohibitive. If their passion is for playing a violin, the school will get them started, if their passion is for athletics, eh, sorry sport.

    I guess arts aren't undervalued in my culture. How bout that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.