The actual real true sound of PAF pickups?

[beep.click]

A quote from Larry Fishman in the May 2014 issue of Guitar Player magazine:

"A lot of people don't know what a good PAF sounds like anymore -- it's almost like Tele pickup."

Now that sounds too good to be true. Has anyone here ever heard a PAF (or any Gibson-style, Gibson-sized humbucker) that really sounds like a Tele?

I have Fenders and Gibsons and Gretsches. FilterTrons in Gretsches get close to a Tele, but nothing I've ever heard in a Gibson is even in the ballpark.

 

[Frodebro]

PAFs were all over the map. Some were great, some weren't so outstanding.

 

[twangking]

Which telecaster pickup? I've played a lot of different PAFs that sounded different for many reasons.

 

[burtwangcaster]

I also read that, I have never heard anyone who knows anything about guitars compare a PAF and a Tele PU. Fishman is a smart guy so maybe it's a mis-quote or something

 

[MatthewDickin]

I'm sure I saw a video where Pete Thorn was talking about one of Gil's LPs, saying that the perfect PAFs should be like a 'Tele on steroids' (of course, whatever the sound, the Yaron nails it). I like that quote, and can see where Pete and Larry are coming from. As I see it, the ideal PAF-type pickups aren't so hot, and aren't so muddy. They have a clarity and a snap, not unlike a good Tele pickup, just with slightly more girth.

Certainly my LP with PAF-style pickups and my Tele with Broadcaster-style pickups are in the same tonal ballpark... I've got a Strat and a Jr with a P90, too, and they are very different sounding guitars. The Tele and Les Paul? Not so much...

 

[String Tree]

I have '57 re-issue Humbuckers in my '76 Custom.
Not a 'hot' Pick-up.
Lower gain but great tone.

 

[MatthewDickin]

I'm sure I saw a video where Pete Thorn was talking about one of Gil's LPs, saying that the perfect PAFs should be like a 'Tele on steroids' (of course, whatever the sound, the Yaron nails it). I like that quote, and can see where Pete and Larry are coming from. As I see it, the ideal PAF-type pickups aren't so hot, and aren't so muddy. They have a clarity and a snap, not unlike a good Tele pickup, just with slightly more girth. Certainly my LP with PAF-style pickups and my Tele with Broadcaster-style pickups are in the same tonal ballpark... I've got a Strat and a Jr with a P90, too, and they are very different sounding guitars. The Tele and Les Paul? Not so much...

Here's the vid. Worth a watch to drool over the sheer beauty of Gil's work.

 

[Tele Fan]

I've never played a true PAF but I've got an ES 335 with Gibson '57 classics and the bridge certainly has some Tele vibe too it. Fatter but with snap and twang.

 

[glenn]

Having had many original PAFs over the years (I still have 3 of them), I'm guessing that what Larry is referring to is the fact that many of today's PAF style pickups sound thicker and darker than the originals. As for whether the originals sounded something like a tele pickup: The top 3 unwound strings do to a degree, but the low 3 wound strings don't sound at all like a tele.

 

[Flakey]

I've played several 58-61 Gibson ES 335 & 345s and a couple of 59 Les Paul customs from a friend's personal collection. There are slight variations between guitars but yeah I was surprised how bright they sound! Like an angry tele with a little more mids. Not as pronounced as a Duncan JB bridge but close. Some sounded a little thin but ,yes, surprisingly bright.

 

[BryMelvin]

I have both some old pickups on teles and gibbys...The only way I can get two of the guitars to sound close is to use the tele pickups in series.

 

[jonrpick]

IMO, the humbucker has evolved and devolved so much over the last 60yrs that it's actually changed people's perception of what a humbucker originally sounded like...

I run Seymour Duncan Antiquity II humbuckers in one of my guitars and they're radically different than all of the other humbuckers I've tried. Way brighter, snappier, punchier, etc... Reversed phase on the neck pickup (from the factory!!!) means that the middle position can go from sharp & cutting to ice-pick-bright easily, while retaining the punch.

Those would be the elusive "Peter Green tones"...

They are far from "muddy".

 

[4pickupguy]

I had a Strat (Warmoth partscaster) that had an original PAF in it (from a 335) in the 80's. It was very bright and sweet. I ended up putting a JB bridge in the same guitar and I liked (at the time) that it had slightly more mids for the rock stuff. I wish I had kept the PAF now. The last bit he plays on the bridge pup sounds just like the SD Broadcaster pup in my tele. He is right that they were very clear sounding because they were much lower output than most people think. Good video.

 

[Tatercaster]

8k was the specification, iirc. A little on the weak side by modern standards.

 

[Lowbassnotes]

This discussion makes me want to take my Gibson with the Shaw PAF's down to the vintage shop and compare them to some 50's ones.

 

[Mike Simpson]

I have a guitar with PAF's, I would not say it sounds like a Tele.

image removed

 

[SheldonP]

I have a guitar with PAF's, I would not say it sounds like a Tele.

image removed

I agree with you on the tone of PAFs. I have a real vintage Gibson PAF in my Tele because it doesn't sound like a Tele pickup. I gotta ask, though. What's up with the f-holes on your guitar in that picture?

 

[Mike Simpson]

It is just my poor photography skills... Here is a better pic.

This is a 1962 ES-335, The guy that did a setup on it years ago said it had PAF stickers on the bottom of the pickups, I have not removed them myself to look. I bought it from the son of the original owner and I was told that it always had a Bigsby. Some "experts" have said that it may have had a trapeze tailpiece originally but you can see it never had a stop tail.

image removed

 

[Shango66]

I must say that video of the repro 59 LP is very tele sounding.

 

[jamester]

I agree with you on the tone of PAFs. I have a real vintage Gibson PAF in my Tele because it doesn't sound like a Tele pickup. I gotta ask, though. What's up with the f-holes on your guitar in that picture?

Regarding the F-holes, your eyes may be playing a trick on you, as the sticker inside blends perfectly with the outline of the hole. It fooled me for a second, too, until I realized what it was. The lower F-hole has a shadow and again, a blending effect. Must've been the lighting. Beautiful guitar! Looks just like my '63RI, except for the Bigsby (love Bigsby's)...

As for PAF's, my feeling is a "true" PAF tone should have a little hollow-ness to the mids, and perhaps a bit of honk in the tone because of it. Low-to-medium output, with a bright, sweet top end and just enough bass. Microphonics optional, but I don't have enough experience in the 'old and unpotted' realm of vintage pups to opine.

I have two 335's, each with 57 Classics. One of them sounds like a LP Custom, the other like a 335 that wishes it were a tele. The latter is my favorite, of course... ;-)