that whole Led Zeppelin thing, you know?

Discussion in 'Music to Your Ears' started by thunderbyrd, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. Pointmonger

    Pointmonger Tele-Afflicted

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    I saw the No Quarter Tour show in Austin. Great show. They had a high school orchestra backing them. That had to be a life highlight for a lot of those kids. Much respect to Page and Plant for giving them that opportunity.
     
  2. Pointmonger

    Pointmonger Tele-Afflicted

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    Sorry, meant the Unledded tour.
     
  3. RLee77

    RLee77 Friend of Leo's

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    Nothing "cover band" about Led Zep once they hit it big, but you had to be there (part of that era) to understand that. The innovations they brought to rock, both in the sounds they created and the way they recorded them, are well-known. For the handful of tracks they "nicked", there was usually hardly anything at all in common with their arrangements and the original. Sure they should have given credit/royalties, but in that time period, it wasn't that uncommon for bands to pilfer stuff.

    Totally agree.

    My feeling exactly... I get tired of hearing "Page was sloppy" comments from those who just don't get it... he was at the leading, bleeding edge, improvising a lot of that on the fly. It wasn't canned well-rehearsed carefully-worked-out-and-practiced solos he was playing, he was creating much of it right then and there, with a degree of difficulty far above what other bands were doing at the time.
     
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  4. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Holic

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    Oh yes. The thing is that Pagey kept on stealing material. After LZ. Remember reading an interview with Chris Squire of Yes, when they had that hit album in 9184 "90125" with "Owner of a Lonely Heart" and was asked what he had been doing in the meantime since Yes 1980 "broke" up, and 1984. He told us that due to pressure from Atlantic where both bands was on, they tried to assemble a band called XYZ (ex Yes Zep) and started to rehearse. Chris Squire, Alan White, JImmy Page, and an at the time unsigned singer and vacant lead vocal spot. Chris told that Pagey was set into a stricter mood, and wanted to woodshed and hone things in. The wrote original material. But a couple of motnhs into it is seems like Jimmy got more and more confident as it started to sound really really good, and all of a sudden his old confidence came back together with "certain pleasures" ;) as Chris's put it, and both Alan White (dr), Chris, put a halt on it all when they discovered. It was said to try to bring Plant in at a later stage.

    A few years later, Chris Squire found out that Pagey was using XYZ material written solely by Squire on their FIRM album without giving any credit to anyone but himself. Think it was the second one but not sure. Chris just deadpanned, and left it at that and said the album didn't make it so much that you could get into all the hassle of suing bring to court and yada yada... but if it had been a number one blockbuster hit all over the world, you bet your ass that Chris would've won. Chris did have huge financial income since 90125 so he thought that the eventual money gained would be scraps anyway. Christ wouldn't mind if Pagey used their more collaborative stuff, but he aimed for the material that was written by Squire only. Which means that he must've found his own material lacking, or inferior. Period.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
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  5. Flash1909

    Flash1909 Tele-Meister

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    My Ticket Stub
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  6. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Holic

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    I still think Pagey was that innovator in other things than just guitar solos or riffs. He had this helicopter view, and knew what he wanted "inside his brain" before anything went on record. With armys of overdubbed guitars, and that light and shade things. The producer, mixer, arranger side of him I think is more important than his skills as a guitarist. Although very huge skills, as he'd honed it in in his prior session days. He had this "true artist" and "misunderstood" performer side of things. He had some inner flame to take his art into new grounds that wasn't heard before. For me, they could have just another guitarist to provide him with that, if that came to it. It was the "forge ahead" like a bulldozer, and couldn't care less what others thought about it, especially the critics.

    I heard that avant garde singer Diamanda Galas who've worked with JPJ once met up with all of the guys (Except Bonham of course), and afterwards said that "JPJ is the only really musical guy in that band, the others should go and raise geese or something". She didn't like them at all, neither as persons, or musicians.
     
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  7. trahx

    trahx Tele-Meister

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    I still love em. Back in the 80's I was in a Led Zeppelin tribute band and the band I'm in now plays a couple of their songs.
     
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  8. songtalk

    songtalk Friend of Leo's

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    Zep was the best British heavy blues rock band. So glad they exist. Huge influence. Physical Graffiti and Zep 1 are my favs.
     
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  9. klkampman

    klkampman Tele-Meister

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    Bonzo was the highlight in my opinion.
    In my mind they were a supergroup in that each was mystical and beyond our normal plane. Most legendary bands were greater than the sum of it's parts.

    Plant is an amazing front man, the golden child. I have imagined Zep fronted by Ozzy would be just as amazing. Take Freddie Mercury, Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, Alex Chilton, Paul Rogers, etc and they would still be gods (assuming lyrics are same) Plant is a great front man regardless.
    Page was a powerhouse and innovative. His riffs and style are timeless. Much of his greatness should be attrivuted to Bonham. They pushed each other, competing and raising the bar. What drummer makes a groove into a song, or counters a simple riff with a beat or fill that makes the song the song. He didn't just keep time, he exploded the drumset and made it just as expressive as any other instrument.
    Jones was smart, a multinstrumentalist, but had the others adding to his work. Page after LZ wasnt quite Zoso anymore. Plant was a mystic singer, not quite the same post breakup. There was a reason they gave up after Bonzo. Ant other band can recover from losing a drummer, not in this case.
    Listen closely to what Bonham is doing in the songs. He could easily have just keep time, or accentuated the riffs, but he pushed them into new territory.
    Black Dog always blew my mind.
    There have been many legendary drummers, but Bonham was it unique.
     
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  10. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    You don't listen to much 80s metal? I think more singers wanted to be Robert Plant than Ozzy, but Black Sabbath type riffs did get more popular in the 2000s with so many stoner/doom bands.

    Actually I'm not really a LZ fan, I only like a couple of songs.
     
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  11. tintag27

    tintag27 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    They were a Supergroup alright, before the term had even been thought of. All four members were exceptional musicians, and they played very well together. Much of their material was based on standard R&B classics as it was for a lot of British bands... but these 'groups' (as they were called then) were at least basing their setlists on original American Blues and R&B work, rather than copying people who were already copying people (Greta van Fleet?). Fact is there were many exciting bands around at this time, so when I saw Led Zeppelin at the Free Trade Hall in Manchester ('69 or '71?) I wasn't expecting this to be the high point of the rest of my life. They were certainly very impressive! Also about the loudest band I have ever heard - I was sat up in the Gods so high I was getting vertigo - and it still hurt my ears...
    Wouldn't have missed it for the world, though!
     
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  12. mally

    mally Tele-Holic

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  13. MatsEriksson

    MatsEriksson Tele-Holic

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    Luckily I had got the 3 last tickets on their last 1979 July show in Copenhagen. They had to have 2 "dress rehearsals" or warm up gigs at Falconer Theater, in order for preparing their huge Knebworth return. Since it was a totally seated event me and my friends got THE very last tix as it was up at the very last row in the right corner of the theater. We had a wall behind us. A 2500 seater. They played 2 gigs. The first one was very trainwrecky, but the second one went ok. People came down from all over the world, you wouldn't believe it where they came from, Japan and so on. I had to just take a ferry cross the strait which took 30 minutes...so I've seen them with Bonham. They premiered 2 new songs from ITTOD, the country one and the first opening number of the LP, "In the Evening". Went away with indifferent applauses. Almost schmaltzy! The album hadn't been released yet.

    Live, they could be arbitrary lame, as well as entering cloud nine sometimes. Too many ups and downs. They aimed for having fewer solos and jams in the 80s. But it wasn't to be, alas. Critics hated these two concerts, and said - damning with faint phrase - that the best that could be said that they were a decent, ok white boy blues band at best. Headlines was like "Not even Pageys guitar works"... and yada yada. I couldn't care less, as I know had seem them, original lineup intact. That's what counted. I didn't think it was their best gig, or even the best gig I've went to, but certainly not the worst one either. I thought that they sported a more mature "demeanor" on stage, wearing just t-shirts and jeans basically, and no fancy costumes a la "Song Remains..." and devoid of smoke bombs and stage antics and effects. They used green lasers for like 45 seconds though... then it carried on like a "regular" gig. 45 seconds of violin bow solos from Page, detached from "Dazed", 45 seconds, not 45 minutes that it used to be...;)

    Nahh, let's see how these puppies Greta van Fleet grows up, they have to be in the oven a couple of more years, before they mature, so let's see. Now, it's just ... mehh... the show JUST that they can SOUND like the old Zeppelin of years gone, but how about something new? Taking it further like Pagey had an idea about way back in the first place? To push the envelope...?
     
  14. teleblueman

    teleblueman Tele-Meister

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    OMG! Thats Cringeworthy! Page must've been wasted. The look on Clapton's face @ 7:50 is priceless.
     
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  15. magicfingers99

    magicfingers99 Friend of Leo's

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    except of course every album had an actual producer and engineer and it wasn't Jimmy Page. Page had a greate ear, he knew a good riff and even it he didn't write it, somehow it belonged to him.
     
  16. homesick345

    homesick345 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Oh yes, someone did, Deep Purple on every count. Zep was more artsy in the studio, better album art covers, aura of mystery, and band mystique... Granted.

    But deep purple were at least equal if not ahead where it counts = music. Especially live - were Page by 1971/2 give or take, was done, sloppy as hell.

    I love Zep, and I love Purple. No problem at all.
     
  17. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

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    Sloppy as hell? No. Not in my estimation. 75/76 maybe. I'm a Blackmore fan too, but after Made in Japan it's hard to think of much Deep Purple contributed in standouts, and when they started sacking and replacing people - nup. Maybe Soldier of Fortune.

    Page could still outmonster people in knockdown shootout live playing. If he was just another Blues guy like Moore (monster himself) not so much but Zep left the regurgitated blues thing behind mostly after 3 but definitely after 4. My favourite album is 3 - that's monster acoustic slide and fingerprinting. Black Mountain Side. Derivative? Maybe. Still brilliant playing and production. And - Page did it live.

    Houses of the Holy set them off on their own tangent and, critical acclaim or not, no-one can say they just kept cranking out 'more of the same'.

    Physical Graffiti and Presence, In Through The Out Door, Coda all had their own thing. Yes, that was an era where Page was less prolific. But it brought JPJ to the fore. If Bonzo hadn't died - big if - it'd be interesting to see where they got to. Just Kashmir and Achilles Last Stand are songs anyone would kill.to have written.

    If anything Zep were getting away from just big overdriven guitars and bonzo-gonzo drums. There was still power in what they did but it was reigned in and finessed.

     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  18. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    The most fascinating part of this thread for me is continued attempts to re-define a "supergroup" as a group made up of supremely talented members. Rather than the accepted usage of a group made up of individual members each already famous from prior groups/solo careers.
     
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  19. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I learned, as a young man, that just because I stop punching does not mean the fight is over....

    In comparing threads, the 'elvis costello' thread where he is nearly universally hailed as a genius contrasted with this thread where 'Led Zep is overrated'... well, since I was never a fan of either is fascinating... I know for almost an entire generation of people they would say 'LZ rulez' (classic rock radio) and that same group would say about Elvis Costello... the glasses guy? 'Alison'? yeah, he's cool. Maybe they would know about Burt Bachrach or being Mr. Diana Krall or whatever...

    In the end, we like what we like and we wish people would like what we liked (or that maybe they would admire us for being so visionary to like stuff that they don't totally get but that they believe is probably smart to like or cool to like.)

    It is complicated... but... the fight goes on until the last ding dong of time... whether we swing or not.
     
  20. viccortes285

    viccortes285 Tele-Afflicted

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    Meet the new Led Zeppelin
     
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