That one baffle bolt ...

[Jewellworks]

I'm trying to remove the baffle from a 66 Gibson so I can clean it (I read through a thread in this forum on how to do it) and of course, there's always that one bolt, in the hardest to reach place that won't come out and just spins. The whole thing.
The baffle is old school particle board, the sides and supports are all real wood. Probably pine.
Any tips on how to get this out?
Or maybe remove the speaker and clean it that way... but that bolt is still loose...

 

[Peegoo]

@Jewellworks

The head on the other end of the fastener is under the vinyl covering. This means holding it in place to get the nut loose will be impossible by conventional means. You do not want to poke a hole in the vinyl.

But this is doable.

Carefully (carefully) grip the smooth end of the screw with a small Vise Grip locking plier. Do not grip on the threads. Get a good tight grip.

Next, use a small wrench (an ignition wrench is perfect...small and very flat/thin) to rotate the nut while you hold the screw from turning.

Once the baffle is off, use an end nipper to snip off the screw flush with the inner surface of the cabinet. If you use a Dremel cutoff wheel to do this, it will heat up the screw and melt the vinyl on the front. Use a nipper.

 

[zook]

After you get the nut off, you could also use crazy glue around the base of he bolt to secure it in place.

 

[yegbert]

All assuming that when done, the baffle board will be held tightly enough onto the cabinet to not induce undesirable vibrations; and that the unused bolt head being left under the speaker cloth will not seem otherwise bothersome; right?

 

[Peegoo]

I am having a hard time visualizing how that baffle is mounted in that cab now. The baffle fits into the cab from the back, right? But looking at the way the speaker is facing has got me all discombobulated

Waiiiitaminute....that IS the back of the speaker...nevermind! My first post is correct.

I need coffee.

 

[2L man]

If the bolt head comes out or rotate freely you could install a Wood Insert and then use screw or bolt to install the baffle. If hole comes too loose for WI threads to grip lube and install a bolt to WI thread and it is safe to use epoxy to install WI when bolt come out even some epoxy ooze to inner threads.

 

[archetype]

After you get the nut off, you could also use crazy glue around the base of he bolt to secure it in place.

I've had to do this with lower end Fenders where the screw spun in the particle board baffle it was merely pressed into.

 

[Peegoo]

To help you visualize what's going on, this is the type of screw. These have 8-32 machine threads for the nut and wood-screw threads under the head that are intended to anchor the screw in the wood and prevent it spinning. But these often work loose as wood dries out and shrinks over many years.

Reverse-thread screws are also often used to mount the speaker to the baffle.

 

[schmee]

I'm trying to remove the baffle from a 66 Gibson so I can clean it (I read through a thread in this forum on how to do it) and of course, there's always that one bolt, in the hardest to reach place that won't come out and just spins. The whole thing.
The baffle is old school particle board, the sides and supports are all real wood. Probably pine.
Any tips on how to get this out?
Or maybe remove the speaker and clean it that way... but that bolt is still loose...

View attachment 1098740

View attachment 1098739

Those nuts Gibson used were terrible for some reason. I took apart a Gibson Medalist I bought cheap on CL to salvage two C12N Jensens. It was 2 x 12 and had a lot of those nuts. At least half of them were permanently stuck on the screw! No idea why, they look like great nuts to use.
As Peegoo shows, those studs are great under light pressure, but if the nut is stuck they just turn in the particle board removing wood.

 

[58Bassman]

I have removed spinning screws with a nut by grabbing the stud with a small vice-grip and using a short combination wrench on the nut- might want to put a drop of some kind of penetrating oil on the stud.

 

[chas.wahl]

The real problem, in my opinion, is the use of particle board for the baffle. It's a terrible "screw-base" as it's known in construction -- doesn't reliably support anything with threading worth a damn.

 

[Jewellworks]

@Jewellworks

The head on the other end of the fastener is under the vinyl covering. This means holding it in place to get the nut loose will be impossible by conventional means. You do not want to poke a hole in the vinyl.

But this is doable.

Carefully (carefully) grip the smooth end of the screw with a small Vise Grip locking plier. Do not grip on the threads. Get a good tight grip.

Next, use a small wrench (an ignition wrench is perfect...small and very flat/thin) to rotate the nut while you hold the screw from turning.

Once the baffle is off, use an end nipper to snip off the screw flush with the inner surface of the cabinet. If you use a Dremel cutoff wheel to do this, it will heat up the screw and melt the vinyl on the front. Use a nipper.

this worked perfectly. i added a dab of WD40 to it and let it sit for 15 mins or so, then used vice grips to hold it still while i turned the nut and got it off. then backthreaded the screw till it was mostly flush w/the tolex on the other side (it was poking out quite a lot) and added a little dab of epoxy, and let it sit while i removed the speaker and cleaned the grill. it looks so much better. and that damn particle board is like a sponge. terrible idea, but its lasted for 57 years so far...

it had a Fender Special Design blue label (Eminence) ceramic in it, but i put in a Jensen P10 alnico, just to compare, and the Jensen definitely has more deep low end warmth. ill put the Fender back in it when i wrap it all back up again.

thanx guys

 

[Peegoo]

and that damn particle board is like a sponge.

If you have particle board that is spongy or flaking apart around a screw hole, there is a simple fix.

With the fastener out of the hole and the baffle removed (you do not want to glue it to the cabinet), slowly apply a few drops of water-thin CA to the hole. It will wick in like water. Allow each drop to soak into the wood before applying the next drop. Give the CA about 10 minutes to set up, and run a drill through the hole to clean up any stray wood flakes and allow the screw to fit.

Particle board that's fortified with CA like this is as hard as teak

I use this same technique around the sides of all my MDF router templates. They last many many years.

 

[58Bassman]

Those nuts Gibson used were terrible for some reason. I took apart a Gibson Medalist I bought cheap on CL to salvage two C12N Jensens. It was 2 x 12 and had a lot of those nuts. At least half of them were permanently stuck on the screw! No idea why, they look like great nuts to use.
As Peegoo shows, those studs are great under light pressure, but if the nut is stuck they just turn in the particle board removing wood.

Stainless was just too expensive.

 

[schmee]

Stainless was just too expensive.

It seemed like the ones in the medalist may have had some glue or goop put on them at the factory. Not sure.

 

[58Bassman]

It seemed like the ones in the medalist may have had some glue or goop put on them at the factory. Not sure.

Nail polish or paint have been used for a long time- if you look in Fender amplifiers from the '40s and '50s, you'll see Surf Green and other colors on nuts/screws. It locks the nut in place, but not as well as LockTite and since Fender's paint shop would have cans of paint that were almost empty, it was a good way to use it, rather than waste it.

 

[printer2]

I have had a number of nuts not come off of the bolt in Yamaha organs, somebody mucked up the threads at the factory and the particle board baffle lets go of the 'wood". Get out the ball peen hammer. Speaking off, need to get some bolts to install two of the Yamaha's tomorrow. Use t-nuts in pockets on the front baffle.