Terrible unfortunate accident. Injury. Need some advice.

studio1087

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As a polite reminder to the few of you who are ridiculing me, the company normally sends two men. This guys work partner was stuck home with Covid and they chose to send this guy all by himself which led to him asking for my assistance.

I do appreciate the constructive advice from the rest of you. Kind thanks.
 

telemnemonics

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Closed businesses because of such management as mentionned in the OP ?
Complicated situation worldwide but it's hard to hire people when some retired, some "moved up to better jobs", some now lack interest in the trades, some chose to go to school rather than flip burgers or install garage doors.

Big shortage of trades people, and the Vocational Technical high schools which are free and put high school grads into entry level jobs, those schools have big empty classes as so few kids want to work with their hands in the trades.
 

johnny k

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Complicated situation worldwide but it's hard to hire people when some retired, some "moved up to better jobs", some now lack interest in the trades, some chose to go to school rather than flip burgers or install garage doors.

Big shortage of trades people, and the Vocational Technical high schools which are free and put high school grads into entry level jobs, those schools have big empty classes as so few kids want to work with their hands in the trades.
oh ok. I kind of get it now.
 

bottlenecker

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Complicated situation worldwide but it's hard to hire people when some retired, some "moved up to better jobs", some now lack interest in the trades, some chose to go to school rather than flip burgers or install garage doors.

Big shortage of trades people, and the Vocational Technical high schools which are free and put high school grads into entry level jobs, those schools have big empty classes as so few kids want to work with their hands in the trades.

The vocational schools I've had experience with most recently don't really prepare people to work in the trades they're teaching, and they charge a lot of money. Then dump students in terrible paying entry level jobs in a dinosaur industry where no one wants to pay, if they're lucky, because sometimes they can't get a job with what they learned.
The trades are all screwed up, and it's more complicated than young people not wanting to do it.
You won't be far off if you point the finger of blame in the general direction of up, though.
As for garage door installation, I don't think I'd call that a trade.
 

JL_LI

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A real physician can also PRESCRIBE DRUGS. This kind of injury will probably require corticosteroids as well as pain meds.
Yes and he has the diagnostic tools at his disposal necessary to identify the problem and prescribe a course of treatment likely to produce the desired outcome. A chiropractor can’t do that.
 

telemnemonics

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I like studio1087 and I'm sorry he got hurt. He willingly entered into the situation.
We got your take on what the injured person did, going into his moms garage when asked by the contractor.

Why (if you feel a need to comment at all) are you refusing to comment on the contractor dropping a big steel door off the tracks?
If you have this strong opinion on what happened, why omit multiple parts of what happened: numerous mistakes made by the guy responsible for the work?
Why only focus on the customer?

It just seems odd, I'd think you would at least say why you feel the contractor is not responsible for damage to the customers property or person?
Is a contractor NEVER responsible for damage caused by their own accidents?
Really mystified by the reasoning here?
Again, as a former contractor.

Contractor responsibilities IME include things like not leaving debris in areas where clients might step on a nail or fall through a ripped up floor etc.
Also not leaving nails where the homeowner can run over them and get flat tires.
We are responsible for preventing injury to the homeowner, which would include not putting them in harms way.
Maybe some states see that differently?
My experience was in NY, NH, MA, ME and CT.
 

telemnemonics

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The vocational schools I've had experience with most recently don't really prepare people to work in the trades they're teaching, and they charge a lot of money. Then dump students in terrible paying entry level jobs in a dinosaur industry where no one wants to pay, if they're lucky, because sometimes they can't get a job with what they learned.
The trades are all screwed up, and it's more complicated than young people not wanting to do it.
You won't be far off if you point the finger of blame in the general direction of up, though.
As for garage door installation, I don't think I'd call that a trade.
Yeah that's a labor job more than a trade. Skilled labor I guess.

But what I'm seeing is plumbers paying record highs to employees, offering great entry pay, charging huge money to customers, and unable to hire anybody.
Some plumbing contractors I know are paying to set up at job fairs and getting zero applicants, even for trainees.
And locally the voc tech schools are not really what you describe, in terms of that contractors are asking them for kids who graduated with fair job offers.
As for these high schools being expensive to the student?
News to me, maybe it changed but it's just part of the public school system.

What is the dinosaur industry you mention?
Plumbing, HVAC, electricians, and high tech manufacturing are all busy and hiring in the Northeast.
Possibly auto and diesel mechanics too but I'm not connected to those industries.
In addition to the building boom and the house buying boom demanding renovation contractors, we have Bath Iron Works hiring, Sig Sauer hiring, and a couple of I forget what manufacturers of jet engines hiring.
Some places require backround checks but high school kids that want to work in a trade have tons of good options ahead, enough to resist robbing liquor stores out of dismal future desperation.
These local companies run radio ads and have billboard trucks they park at shopping centers and even in front of competitors businesses.

Tons of legit trade jobs are hiring and today's 35yo master plumber or electrician makes up around six figures. Kids can get $20/ hr on the job training, or even more in some companies.
Take a year of business classes and it's not hard to be a licensed plumbing contractor, IF you can hire some plumbers.

This Spring my hot water tank blew (remote tank off the oil burner, basically a $2000- $2500 job) and I had no hot water for a month because the best I could get from a plumbing contractor was give them $100 and they might look at it in two weeks. Got my coworker maintenance guy to help and we installed it ourselves.
I know maybe a dozen plumbers personally and every contractor is six months out in every trade.

Oh yeah there are good paying trade jobs!
And oh yeah kids today are not interested in this corner of the country...
 

MilwMark

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John. I hope you are ok.

Didn’t read the whole thread.

Honestly you are not doing that owner ANY favors if you don’t tell them. There is NO WAY they want their employee to do ask a customer to help with any job. Let alone lifting or taking a door not under tension.

They need to know so they can retrain this guy and their entire staff ASAP.
 

tap4154

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I like studio1087 and I'm sorry he got hurt. He willingly entered into the situation.
That's not really true. The contractor invited John into a very dangerous situation. John doesn't know anything about installing garage doors, or how dangerous it could be. He was just being a nice guy, and entered that dangerous situation because the contractor asked him to. So that cannot be "willingly" because he didn't know the real danger. The contractor was negligent in even asking him, and is liable for any damages and medical costs IMO.

By the way, your argument for this sounds a bit like, "well she shouldn't have been wearing a short skirt".
 

bottlenecker

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Yeah that's a labor job more than a trade. Skilled labor I guess.

But what I'm seeing is plumbers paying record highs to employees, offering great entry pay, charging huge money to customers, and unable to hire anybody.
Some plumbing contractors I know are paying to set up at job fairs and getting zero applicants, even for trainees.
And locally the voc tech schools are not really what you describe, in terms of that contractors are asking them for kids who graduated with fair job offers.
As for these high schools being expensive to the student?
News to me, maybe it changed but it's just part of the public school system.

What is the dinosaur industry you mention?
Plumbing, HVAC, electricians, and high tech manufacturing are all busy and hiring in the Northeast.
Possibly auto and diesel mechanics too but I'm not connected to those industries.
In addition to the building boom and the house buying boom demanding renovation contractors, we have Bath Iron Works hiring, Sig Sauer hiring, and a couple of I forget what manufacturers of jet engines hiring.
Some places require backround checks but high school kids that want to work in a trade have tons of good options ahead, enough to resist robbing liquor stores out of dismal future desperation.
These local companies run radio ads and have billboard trucks they park at shopping centers and even in front of competitors businesses.

Tons of legit trade jobs are hiring and today's 35yo master plumber or electrician makes up around six figures. Kids can get $20/ hr on the job training, or even more in some companies.
Take a year of business classes and it's not hard to be a licensed plumbing contractor, IF you can hire some plumbers.

This Spring my hot water tank blew (remote tank off the oil burner, basically a $2000- $2500 job) and I had no hot water for a month because the best I could get from a plumbing contractor was give them $100 and they might look at it in two weeks. Got my coworker maintenance guy to help and we installed it ourselves.
I know maybe a dozen plumbers personally and every contractor is six months out in every trade.

Oh yeah there are good paying trade jobs!
And oh yeah kids today are not interested in this corner of the country...

Oh I meant trade schools, not high schools. The dinosaur part is the people still in charge from the old days who haven't adapted to how the business needs to be run now, not the trades themselves. I really only know the trades I've been in, but there's been a lot of bait and switch. They hear about how everyone's desperate for machinists, then they spend their money at a trade school, and then the previously mentioned dinosaurs want to pay them $15 an hour because they don't know anything. People who don't know anything still have to eat.
 

telemnemonics

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Oh I meant trade schools, not high schools. The dinosaur part is the people still in charge from the old days who haven't adapted to how the business needs to be run now, not the trades themselves. I really only know the trades I've been in, but there's been a lot of bait and switch. They hear about how everyone's desperate for machinists, then they spend their money at a trade school, and then the previously mentioned dinosaurs want to pay them $15 an hour because they don't know anything. People who don't know anything still have to eat.
Right for example machinists are less and less in demand due to most manufacturing being gone.
For example you can make pretty good money in a pretty safe environment locally at Sig, but if you leave you're not really a skilled tradesman with you gun factory experience.
Bath Iron Works trains the able bodied willing applicants and if you leave you have trade skill that will get you other jobs, jobs still done in the US like welding on boats and other equipment.
Or diesel repair, electrical (engineering) etc.
A guy I know who was Navy on subs moved to a nuclear power plant and now makes way over the six figure mark at an upstart drug manufacturer.
He was head hunted like many seem to be experiencing these days.
Techs to fix all sorts of commercial mechanical and electrical equipment are also in short supply, but similarly something like grocery store maintenance, once learned on the job, is that a trade?
Another friend became a millwright with no experience, and they were shipping him all over the country but I'm not sure of specifics.
Why send a tech from Maine 1000 miles to fix a broken factory widget?
My local grocer stopped slicing their in house baked breads because the slicer broke and it sat for months!
 

1293

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We got your take on what the injured person did, going into his moms garage when asked by the contractor.

Why (if you feel a need to comment at all) are you refusing to comment on the contractor dropping a big steel door off the tracks?
If you have this strong opinion on what happened, why omit multiple parts of what happened: numerous mistakes made by the guy responsible for the work?
Why only focus on the customer?

It just seems odd, I'd think you would at least say why you feel the contractor is not responsible for damage to the customers property or person?
Is a contractor NEVER responsible for damage caused by their own accidents?
Really mystified by the reasoning here?
Again, as a former contractor.

Contractor responsibilities IME include things like not leaving debris in areas where clients might step on a nail or fall through a ripped up floor etc.
Also not leaving nails where the homeowner can run over them and get flat tires.
We are responsible for preventing injury to the homeowner, which would include not putting them in harms way.
Maybe some states see that differently?
My experience was in NY, NH, MA, ME and CT.
We got your take on what the injured person did, going into his moms garage when asked by the contractor.

Why (if you feel a need to comment at all) are you refusing to comment on the contractor dropping a big steel door off the tracks?
If you have this strong opinion on what happened, why omit multiple parts of what happened: numerous mistakes made by the guy responsible for the work?
Why only focus on the customer?

It just seems odd, I'd think you would at least say why you feel the contractor is not responsible for damage to the customers property or person?
Is a contractor NEVER responsible for damage caused by their own accidents?
Really mystified by the reasoning here?
Again, as a former contractor.

Contractor responsibilities IME include things like not leaving debris in areas where clients might step on a nail or fall through a ripped up floor etc.
Also not leaving nails where the homeowner can run over them and get flat tires.
We are responsible for preventing injury to the homeowner, which would include not putting them in harms way.
Maybe some states see that differently?
My experience was in NY, NH, MA, ME and CT.

That's not really true. The contractor invited John into a very dangerous situation. John doesn't know anything about installing garage doors, or how dangerous it could be. He was just being a nice guy, and entered that dangerous situation because the contractor asked him to. So that cannot be "willingly" because he didn't know the real danger. The contractor was negligent in even asking him, and is liable for any damages and medical costs IMO.

By the way, your argument for this sounds a bit like, "well she shouldn't have been wearing a short skirt".


John was wearing a short skirt? I missed that post.
 

bottlenecker

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Right for example machinists are less and less in demand due to most manufacturing being gone.
For example you can make pretty good money in a pretty safe environment locally at Sig, but if you leave you're not really a skilled tradesman with you gun factory experience.
Bath Iron Works trains the able bodied willing applicants and if you leave you have trade skill that will get you other jobs, jobs still done in the US like welding on boats and other equipment.
Or diesel repair, electrical (engineering) etc.
A guy I know who was Navy on subs moved to a nuclear power plant and now makes way over the six figure mark at an upstart drug manufacturer.
He was head hunted like many seem to be experiencing these days.
Techs to fix all sorts of commercial mechanical and electrical equipment are also in short supply, but similarly something like grocery store maintenance, once learned on the job, is that a trade?
Another friend became a millwright with no experience, and they were shipping him all over the country but I'm not sure of specifics.
Why send a tech from Maine 1000 miles to fix a broken factory widget?
My local grocer stopped slicing their in house baked breads because the slicer broke and it sat for months!

Apparently all the guidance counselors thought that and told the kids the machinist jobs went away, and now shops can't find machinists. But the shops are also cheap, because a kid out of school can't do much. Not everywhere. Some places are doing it right and paying really well. The machining jobs that went away were the semi skilled factory jobs like the sig job you mentioned. There will always be need for job shops and prototyping.
There was also a gap, where a lot of talent retired before new talent could learn from them.
But at least I don't have to count on welding anymore.
 

tap4154

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I would be ashamed to not take responsibility for my own decisions. That's despicable. There's nobody to blame but me.
If you really feel that way, then you feel that the contractor should take responsibility for the outcome of his decision to ask a layman, the customer's son, to help him remove an 18 ft steel garage door, correct?
 




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