Tele Player 2 Modified cant get intonation correct

[kipkohl]

Brand new guitar. Return it.

Likely the bridge is not in the correct position. You should have ample adjustment available.

This

 

[mtjo62]

Take Peegoo's advice. When I set up my guitars, I adjust the all the saddles where the front is approx 25.5 in from the front of the nut and set intonation from there. The springs should be about half compressed. You didn't mention what gauge strings you are using. The lighter the gauge the more chances they can go sharp when fretted hard. I generally tune standard unfretted and then check harmonics at the 7th and 12th frets and tweak the intonation. Works for me.

 

[Guerilla Electro]

I mentionned adding washers behind the bridge plate , it's something you can do instead of shortening the intonation screw , but it's only for really extreme cases where the intonation screw touches the string so you can't go further back : we are talking about modern strat style block saddles here , not a 3 saddle tele . These are the longer modern bridges with block saddles not bent steel saddles .

but unless you are really using really heavy strings like flatwound 13 's you shouldn't need it : cutting down the spring length should be enough .

I have no smartphone or camera, no way to take pictures

 

[SpiseStol]

@SpiseStol

Do me a favor: measure the distance from the front of the nut (the side of the nut against the fretboard) to exact spot where the high E string breaks over the top of the bridge saddle. It should be 25.5" or 647.7mm, or just a teensy bit longer.

What is the measurement on your guitar?

First of all, thanks for all the engagement and suggestions. I really appreciate it!

So, some information: As I said, brand new Tele P2 Modified. Changed to 10-46 strings. Tuning in standard E
I measured the length from nut to sadle. Low E - 652mm, High E - 650mm

I tried the 3rd to 15th fret method, and that gives me good readings on a tuner, like within 2 cents as far as I can tell. I can't hear the difference at least. I tried a Boss TU-2, Korg Pitchblack Custom, but most consistent and eays to read results with the built in tuner in Logic Pro going through an old presonus usb interface.

I had to fully bottom the adjustment screw on two of the saddles (Low E and G), and it is still a little incosistent when using the open string 12th fret method. Probably me being a total newb on intonation (I honestly never cared in my 25 years as a guitar player, please dont hate me). This is actually my first brand new guitar, I have always bought second hand and never had a problem with intonation before.

I have checked the neck relief (truss rod), and it seems to be ok. (approx 0.010 / 0.25mm)

So, based on this, I have decided to keep the guitar. Sharing an image of the bridge and saddles for info.

Again, thanks a lot for all the help! Will most certainly come back here! And sorry for the long post.

Distance from nut (I am pushing the end of the measuring stick on the side of the nut)

 

[Peegoo]

@SpiseStol

Adjust the high E string's saddle string breakover point to 648mm from the nut.

Are you certain you're adjusting the proper way when zeroing in on the intonation?

This is a short review of the procedure to get a string's intonation close to perfect; do this with the guitar on your lap in the playing position:

1. Tune the string to proper pitch.

2. Confirm proper pitch by playing a harmonic on the string at the 12th fret.

3. LIGHTLY press the string to the 12th fret and check the pitch.

---If the 12th fret note is sharper than the harmonic, tighten the saddle screw to 'lengthen' the string.

---If the 12th fret note is flatter than the harmonic, loosen the saddle screw to 'shorten' the string.

Note: having the guitar flat on a table--especially with the neck resting in a neck support of some kind--can throw off the pitch on many guitars. Always set intonation with the guitar in the playing position, using normal finger pressure. The same pressure you use when playing is ideal.

HOWEVER! Before all the above is done, the action of the strings over the neck must be properly adjusted, and the truss rod adjusted as well for proper relief. Some necks play fine when perfectly straight. Some guitars need a little relief.

 

[Peegoo]

And remember...we all learned this stuff the same way. There's no such thing as a "long post" or too many questions.

So fire away, and we can help you get your guitar playing like greased lightning.

 

[mtjo62]

Is it just me or do the saddles look too wide? The D and G look normal, but it appears the others are not aligned with the string through holes. If need be, you can also snip off a few mm from the spring. I'd be curious to see the string alignment up the neck.

 

[Guerilla Electro]

your intonation screws are already shorter on the lower side , so you 're good to go , no need for washers .

cutting the low E spring in half could help you scrimp a few tuning cents

 

[Guerilla Electro]

but it appears the others are not aligned with the string through holes.

at first I thought it was due to the picture being taken at a slight angle , but I think you are right

if you compare with a stock picture , the saddles seem a bit misaligned with string through ferrules , especially the high E
so maybe the ferrules are not located right , maybe it's the bridge : in any case you got a valid reason to send the guitar back !

click on the picture to zoom in

 

[Peegoo]

Is it just me or do the saddles look too wide?

They're okay. That is camera parallax due to the extreme close-up.

 

[bumnote]

tried the 3rd to 15th fret method, and that gives me good readings on a tuner, like within 2 cents as far as I can tell.

The reason I use that method was because a cowboy chord G is what I strum to check tune when I pickup a guitar, my ear likes it and can distinguish tuning errors better than other chords. The low E is also my 'problem' string for a variety of reasons so the intonation needed to be more exact, otherwise being slightly off in my hands meant sounding really off and I'll first hear that problem at the third fret. I knew about that method before I tried, but once I stumbled across that revelation with the low E it made setups easier and better.
A buddy of mine at work who did his own setups found out the 5th and 17th frets worked best for him. They are a lot ways of doing it, the trick is just finding out which one consistently works best for you individually.

 

[Supertwang]

Those saddles look long IMHO. IDK how Fender could’ve got that detail wrong tho

 

[Boreas]

Was intonation OK with the original strings - likely .009s?

Is every fret position sharp by the same amount while the string is in tune when played open? That could indicate simply high action. Or does it vary up the neck?

I don't have an answer. But when I start a setup on a new guitar, I usually remove the neck and check for any schmutz in the pocket and make sure the screw holes through the body do not bind. Then I make sure there are no gaps visible and there is a good fit. Then I ensnuggen the screws again using just mild torque, restring close to pitch, loosen the screws just a 1/8 turn or so and let the neck "slip" into position against the body. Then re-align and resnuggen the screws. Not too tight! Just use your fingers on the screwdriver, not the palm of your hand or you can overtorque and create other problems.

Now, your neck should be properly seated (not rocking in the pocket) and you can measure from the take-off point on the nut to your saddles. If it still measures too long, the bridge plate is likely too far forward. Not a difficult fix, but not something you should need to do on a new guitar. Intonation is the LAST step of a good setup. Make sure you have a good setup WRT action, relief, nut slot height, etc. before attempting to adjust saddle compensation. But if everything checks out OK but the saddle compensation is out of room, I would send it back, or have Fender pay for a bridge repair. Sometimes you cannot shift the plate far enough back without the pickup hitting the cavity wall, which means you may need to remove wood.

 

[AAT65]

Have you checked the nut?? Slots not cut deep enough is a possible cause, certainly needs to be eliminated.
Fret at the 3rd fret and the string should just clear the 1st fret. If it’s noticeably high then the nut slots need deepened. (Even if they were good with 9s they might be too tight for 10s to sit into right.)

 

[ThatTele335Guy]

I just left a thread that mentioned a sitar like sound and dead notes coming from this exact model.. and see this one discussing intonation issues, I can 100% as an owner of this model confirm both are a problem.
I've never had this issue on any other tele.
I've ruled out the nut as the culprit as I'm having issues on lot of fretted notes/ chords.
The intonation is very off as well.. regardless of adjustment
Probably just going to get a new ( 3 barrel) bridge plate

 

[MGW-AB]

There have been a couple of guitars I've had where the low E (6th) saddle wouldn't pull back far enough to be properly intoned. The nuts were good both times. I eventually relented and used my Dremel with a cutoff wheel to remove about 1/3 of the spring length and then all was well.

Personally, I just think it proves every guitar is unique, CNC or not. Intonation adjustments are such small increments that I think all it would take would be a bridge screw hole to be off by a few thousandths of an inch. Or maybe at the neck joint or the nut. I don't know what the tolerance is on wood cutting CNC machines but I have to imagine it's likely in the neighbourhood of 8 to 10 thousandths or so and that amount could mean the difference. I ran a CNC plasma cutting machine for 4 years and I know that machine (ESAB) was accurate to 25 to 50 thousandths, depending on arc length, choice of amperage, travel speed and steel thickness. I imagine wood cutting machines have tighter tolerances but I know for certain it's physically impossible for them to be absolutely perfect to zero thousandths.

 

[Paulmccarthy]

This is how I do it. When your finished intonating with this sounds so good.

Open

12th Fret

7th Fret

Octave of 7th fret

1st Fret

 

[Full-Tilt-Tele]

Been the before;
I changed out the standard 'Barrels' for a set of brass compensated barrels, and then I cut off 1/3rd of the low 'E' spring to move the barrel a little further back... Problem Solved!

 

[Matthias]

Some additional thoughts:

- When the springs are that compressed, it’s possible when they aren’t well aligned with the direction of the screw (as seen on the high E) the force might be enough to push the saddles out of original alignment, perhaps moving a little when bending and throwing intonation out.

- There are two places the string might bind, one on the nut but I’m thinking more the inside edge of the saddles. The finish looks a little rough in places. While this causes tuning issues when bending, it’s also going to cause tuning issues while you set intonation.

Regarding @ThatTele335Guy’s issue, those saddles look a prime candidate for a buzz, as some just barely kiss each other. I’ve solved that issue a few times by putting very thin material between problem saddles.

 

[Buzzgrowl]

@SpiseStol dude, check your nut slots.

The advice you are geting here is good, but unless your nut is cut properly, the first frets will all be sharp to some degree.