Tele bridge placement on boutique line (??)

Discussion in 'Other T-Types and Partscasters' started by That Cal Webway, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    On Sweetwater's site are several Friedman T style guitars.
    I'm sure these are fantastic especially that Grover Jackson's involved with building them.

    But the placement of the bridge puts the saddle intonation points way forward than you normally see on the traditional three barrel saddles.
    I checked on most of his other guitars of that type there, and they're similar.

    As a tele player I know every nuance is important in keeping the brightness of the bridge pup sound from dominating, and the saddles being closer to the pickup would contribute to that.
    Here's a link-- zoom into the bridge saddles:
    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...pine-transparent-white-with-maple-fingerboard


    .
     
  2. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    ** I didn't want to put the builder's name in the title to not create all kind of silly drama and disrespect,

    just wondering about this placement- it certainly looks wrong

    .
     
  3. wabashslim

    wabashslim Tele-Holic

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    Looks like they just need adjusted back some, maybe. I don't see anything unusual unless I don't understand your question.

    The saddles get set to where they intonate properly. Again, I don't understand your issue. This just looks like the garden-variety Tele bridge setup, common as dirt.
     
  4. nopicknick

    nopicknick Tele-Meister Ad Free Member

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    I understand your question, and the saddles do look more forward than they normally would. I would suggest an email, or call Friedman. Perhaps they do something alittle different in their design.
     
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  5. Chunkocaster

    Chunkocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Maybe they tweaked the scale length?
    Boutique scale?
     
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  6. eallen

    eallen Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    The location if the bridge has to be located to provide enough room for saddle intonation as well as string thru alignment. There is no weird gap at the pickguard to scream that something is amiss. It may be a different bridge brand than you are used to seeing but the saddle edge will always be 25.5" from the nut regardless. The only thing that can be moved is the pup location & that is dictated by the bridge hole. So, the only way for the saddles to be unusual would be for the string thru holes to put in some funky location forward or back a bit which would leave a pickguard gap. Looks like it should to me.

    Eric
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
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  7. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    I will this week!!

    .
     
  8. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    these are in-house made by their own templates and CNC machines, and of course much hand work and, a plek

    if you look at the other Friedman T's on the Sweetwater site, they too have the saddles much more forward than you would see on the trad 3 barrel saddle bridge arrangement.

    - The closer you get the saddle to the bridge pickup, the brighter the sound would be, although of course we're talking nuance here, although it is not insignificant.

    I am someone who doesn't use affects other than reverb and does not play real loud... so I venture that I would hear it too probably.


    that's why I sold my G&L ASAT Special
    it was a little too bright and shrill even with turning the tone down and all that,
    The fact is for me, that bridge pickup needs to be move towards the neck a bit on those, but who am I there going to listen to hahaha!!

    (Btw, the G&L asat special's bridge poles are closer to the saddles, for sure than a Tele's)

    . Anywho I'll email Friedman this week!
     
  9. Nick Fanis

    Nick Fanis Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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  10. eallen

    eallen Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    Brightness is far more the pickups, pots, and cap being used. If a person I am building for ask for a brighter guitar or less bright guitar the first thing I do is change the pickup height. Next might be string size or brand. If they want the flexibility thru their tone pot I change the cap used. If they want the change all the time I go for the pots. Last would be pickups.

    The most overlooked sound change for most is simply the amp they are using. I always recommend using several amps as well as adjusting their own amp before the make any changes.

    I build and install a lot of bridges. This one look pretty normal. If you want to know for sure just measure the photo. It is 25.5 from the nut to saddle. Take a nut to saddle measurement on the pic and divide 25.5 by that measurement to get the ratio. Measure the nut to pickup dimension and multiply it by that ratio.

    Always interesting to see what affects tone.

    Eric
     
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  11. Greggorios

    Greggorios Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I've seen a number of threads on the forum with a similar scenario. It's always tricky trying to assess technical measurements through photos, internet, etc. Lot's and lot's of optical illusions. Need to see 'em up front and personal in person.
     
  12. That Cal Webway

    That Cal Webway Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    Respectfully disagree, my eyes are not fooling me
    Simply too far forward.

    . And I'm certainly not interested in buying this, I'm just a tele nut who knows what I like in a tele!

    Thanks for all the information!!
    and I'll either email Sweetwater or Friedman this week sometime

    .
     
  13. Nick Fanis

    Nick Fanis Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Well they do.

    The guitar is just a good old regular tele dimension and scale wise.

    The garden variety bridge confirms this (as well as the specs posted on the builder's site)

    You can simply email the shop or the builder and verify this ;) .
     
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  14. Si G X

    Si G X Tele-Meister

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    It looks to me that the neck pocket isn't as deep as a fender? (but that could just be my eyes too... white guitar/white background) if you look across from the bottom cutout to the frets??

    ..... if that was the case by 1/4 inch or something, then the saddles would be 1/4 inch more towards the neck for the intonation to be right if the bridge was in the same place.

    ... and looking at it again compared to a fender ... it's a 22 fret guitar but the neck looks further away from the neck pickup to me too.

    what do you all think? is it just my eyes?
     
  15. fenderchamp

    fenderchamp Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    I think you're right about the neck. it looks like maybe the saddles are compensating for the way the 22 fret neck is mounted to the body, assuming that pickups are in the same location they always are.

    Interesting...

    those saddles are unscrewed about as far as you might want to unscrew them too, I'm sure the guys at Friedman are all aware enough of this geometry.

    A fender 22 fret neck clearly overhangs the pickgaurd
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
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  16. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I find this sort of visual annoying too, and have never worked on a Tele where proper intonation placed the high E saddle this much further forward than the low E saddle.

    I've experimented with alternate bridge pickup locations quite a bit and agree that a little closer to or a little further the saddles changes the pickup tone significantly.
    Rev BFG agrees and even has a special bridge plate on all his Tele's to tame the strident high E tone without adding muddy overwound pickup tone to the low E.

    Hard to say why these pics show an intonation setting that is so atypical?
    The claim is that the guitar is plek'd and intonated at the factory, so it's not likely a Sweetwater tech did a prep for pics that resulted in a poorly intonated setup.

    While it appears that the neck heel is full depth with no overhang like G&L and that Korean Fender Tele with the neck that only fits the body it rode in on, I don't think the way the neck mounts has anything at all to do with the intonation being correct with the low E that much longer than the high E.
    While the nut is not compensated, AFAIK there are ways to use some sort of sweetened tuning combined with an alternate intonation setting strategy which places the saddles in visually unfamiliar locations.
    I think the Washburn Nuno has that sort of alternate setup and tuning requirements where you need to use a tuner with whatever the alternate method is?
    Or read the Jerry Donahue setup article on the Duncan website for info on alternate intonation and tuning approaches.

    I can't say that's what's happening on these pics and would need the guitar on the bench to know if it's really correctly intonated with that setup.

    The way the parts fit reminds me of a GFS build.
    Not a fan of those wider reveals around the horn where the guard fits, looks like Chinese parts.
    Sorry!
     
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  17. wabashslim

    wabashslim Tele-Holic

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    Aside from all the no-it-isn't / yes-it-is about the saddles, what the heck drives someone to want to spend $2700 on a TELECASTER? I've got 3, and I don't believe there's a Tele on Earth realistically worth more than $1000 - "celebrity owned" BS notwithstanding. They're just very simple planks no matter who builds them.
     
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  18. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Doctor of Teleocity

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    I think the guitar needs a setup. No reason to assume the guitars in that photo shoot were playable.
     
  19. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Sweetwater does state that the Washburn Nuno guitar has the Buzz Feiten tuning system, where their description of the Friedman has no mention of any alternate/ enhanced intonation or tuning system.
    The Buzz Feiten system starts with moving the nut closer to the 1st fret, then adjusting the intonation differently.
    On the Nuno guitar the saddles are not placed at such extreme different string lengths though, at least in the pics.

    Looking closer at the Sweetwater pics of the $2500 Nuno though, we see that the headstock has shoddy looking holes with a string hold down bar was removed from the headstock, presumably by the makeup artist prepping the guitar for pics?

    This leads me to believe maybe the Sweetwater pics are less than correct representations of correct intonation on the Friedman?
     
  20. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    That's what I'm inclined to think but the listing states that the guitar gets a full plek'd setup at the factory, so for it to be that out of whack, sweetwater would have to purposefully screw up the setup before taking pics!

    Seeing what they did to the Nuno guitar though where they removed the hold down from the headstock and left the holes there, maybe they either do indeed have the camera crew monkey with the guitars in the dressing room, or else maybe they photograph the guitars they pass around to all the sales staff and techs to make them all familiar with the products.

    Looking at various other pics of Friedman Tele styles it looks like those in the hands of actual players end up adjusted so all the saddles are too far forward, where the Sweetwater sample has only the high e too far forward, making the chances of a normally fretted neck intonating properly with the high E string that much shorter than the low E strings slim to none.

    What I think is that when Friedman milled up necks with 22 frets and a full heel rather than an overhang, they then put the changed spec neck pocket in a new location to work with the changed spec neck heel and ended up with the two changed specs putting the bridge plate further from the nut than the original and universal Fender spec.
    The plate being further from the nut means the saddles need to be moved further from the holes and screws, putting the saddles closer to the pickup and changing the tone a bit.

    Interestingly, this spec is the same as the oh so common GFS milling mistake.
    Why would a boutique builder make the same mistake as the cheapest Chinese parts supplier when making yet another Tele copy?
    Hard to say, maybe Friedman is going deaf and needs a more strident high E string to hear it clearly?
     
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