Taking sides and it's historical fiction.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Jun 10, 2021 at 8:48 AM.

  1. trapdoor2

    trapdoor2 Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    All I can add is a nice ragtime tune from 1897 by George Rosey. A "scorcher" was a term for bicyclists of the period who had 1.) a need for speed and 2). a blatant disregard for pedestrians. In 1896, the city of Denver, CO famously tried to defeat the local scorchers by deputizing about a dozen of the members of the local bike club. Unfortunately, the city fathers didn't realize that the same guys they hired were actually scorchers themselves...

    The dedication: "To The L. A. W." references a national club: The League of American Wheelmen", which is still in existence.

     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021 at 2:22 PM
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  2. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    OK so now I'm hooked. Leave it to a bunch of telecaster lovers to also be history buffs. Sooooo... all of this railroad talk and such, led me to stuff by Richard White. I'm gonna ask Father's Day Santa for a couple of his books. The last book in particular is relevant to the zillions of California threads we start.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_White_(historian)
    Apparently one of the main railroad magnates (or robber barons, depending on the audience) was Collins P. Huntington, who is the namesake for Huntington (here), which is center of the aforementioned prior most inland port. :D

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collis_Potter_Huntington

    Where is the thread now on the "Wikipedia is bad" spectrum?
     
  3. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    Part of why I wasn't quick to jump into the chat. I was aware of "safety bicycles" seen as competition for cars and the averaging 14+ MPH on 100 year old farm roads was a red flag.
     
  4. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    That's because you didn't live in Austin, Texas during the Early Hipster Years of the 2000s.

    I kid you not.
     
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  5. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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  6. Harry Styron

    Harry Styron Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    You may discover the historian Lynn T. White, who wrote about the effects of advances in technology on economic development. Don't overlook Dee Brown's Hear that Lonesome Whistle Blow!
     
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  7. P Thought

    P Thought Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I love Wikipedia. I contribute--wealthy teaching magnate that I am--to their fund drives. I have a Wikipedia t-shirt, too.

    @Harry Styron, I'm a read that Dee Brown book, thanks for the tip. Stephen Ambrose wrote a good one too, called Nothing Like It In the World.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021 at 2:37 PM
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  8. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021 at 2:38 PM
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  9. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I know about the desperation with bike shortages. In this case maybe someone got messed up with the advantages of a 29r?

    You should not have done that when I'm getting ready for a meeting with the boss and aiming to be with bike posse at trail head later.
     
  10. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    "Cost-distance analysis"

    https://desktop.arcgis.com/en/analytics/case-studies/understanding-cost-distance-analysis.htm

    Anyone into that type of thing? Uses GIS mapping 3D models. I know @imwjl works with environmental and city planning. My daughter is an anthropology/archaeology major and is taking some GIS courses with it. She uses this type of software. It's all so new to me. This is the first thing I've across that starts to make sense to me as to the use of GIS for historical research.

    Cool as... cool things can be. :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
     
  11. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    heh heh sorry
     
  12. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think I need to go meditate for a while. Break the hyperfocus cycle. I wish I were joking.
     
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  13. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    we are doing a project with the city of san jose where we use it for targeting specific neighborhoods and specific locales.. what is really fun is the ability to do many many many overlays for specific data sets... as the 'truth' emerges the indicators essentially raise their hand and say 'look at our curves, you can tell we're related'

    it is easy to get lost in and lose hours.
     
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  14. Harry Styron

    Harry Styron Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    "Spatial history" appears to be a new name for economic geography; geography as an academic discipline faded after WWII, and many universities eliminated geography departments, though its subject matter was absorbed into other disciplines.

    In the economics silo, a numerical approach to economic geography was called spatial economics. There is also a multi-disciplinary field called regional science, which sometimes brings transportation engineers into the tent that includes number crunchers from various social sciences and urban planners.

    One of the concepts I was introduced to in both economics and geography classes 50 years ago was "Cartesian hypercircles," which was a math tool for looking at diffusion of ideas and technologies over space. Another one, also originating in the 19th century, was Walter Christaller's central place theory, that overlaid a theoretical featureless surface of the earth with hexagons (nested in a fractal manner), which describes the way settlement patterns occur. The hexagons are distorted in reality because of physical barriers, such as mountain ranges and rivers. Under central place theory, low order central places are things like convenience stores and dry cleaners. A higher order central place might include a supermarket, a home improvement store and a hospital. The next higher order might have a major university, a multi-modal transportation hub and headquarters of major corporations and government agencies.

    Not wanting to be an academic, I went to law school in 1979, and have found all this social science and history learning to be helpful as a real estate lawyer and city attorney. My mind keeps going back to it and to music. Retirement beckons.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021 at 5:00 PM
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  15. THX1123

    THX1123 Tele-Meister

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    My drummer stated that the Pyramids were built from the top down last week. He is free to believe what he wants, but some of us can still think critically. I was tempted to ask about his reasoning and sources, but I think it is easy to deduce what his sources are. He hates reading. He never reads. He says all the reading I have done is a waste of time. He is suspicious of anyone with more than a high school diploma. But he is also somehow an expert on the Pyramid construction, and with unshakable opinions on the topic. I still love the guy, and I don't care to fight about something so seemingly preposterous.

    This remains the point of my post:

    New or not, how could, or can Wikipedia or Youtube be considered valid or reliable sources by any objective or academic standard?

    Apparently the answer is that established research methodology is extinct. Maybe all the Universities missed the major changes to science and reasoning that Wikipedia and Youtube have rendered obsolete in the last 20 years.

    I'm unclear how my knowledge of Wikipedia matters to the point. I was required to demonstrate my reasoning to earn my degrees, and to extensively reference my academic work and to use established and reliable sources and research methodology. This was less than 5 years ago, in the age of Wikipedia and Youtube.

    These are the waters I drank from - because using Wikipedia as a reference at any University, in a scholarly article, or in any legitimate piece of work or journalism is unacceptable at best, and will get you an automatic fail at worst in most courses. I don't need to explain why this is the case.
     
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  16. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    I think it depends on the circles you run in. I work with smart people and they let me still work with them. I have affluent friends and acquaintances. Same thing. I think most of us are open to new information if it meets us where we are...at a gathering, office meeting. Total BS you can call out face to face or it wouldn't be shared cause its total BS or off the wall.

    On the internet, we're all the same. Viewing through a screen. But it's harder to vet information when it comes through the same medium into my house or pocket. What I mean is, a crackpot friend of a friend posts some non-sense. Now I have read it and maybe given it consideration. If I met that guy at a bar, drunk off his rocker or on the city busy, I would have a baseline level where I could dismiss it from the get go.
     
  17. Bluesboy3

    Bluesboy3 Tele-Afflicted

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    Right. Well, I have (had) what I consider to be a crackpot friend. A writer. Really knowledgeable about history, music, etc. But his ideas to me are crackpot. But who am I to say? I can't call him on his BS because he goes down the "I research this stuff Tony, it's all true", etc, etc. I don't have the energy to argue. So, I'm happy to be "ignorant" (in his mind). And, then, in my mind, there are more and more "crackpots" out there (seemingly).
     
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  18. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I too coming from bike racing in primarily CAT 2 and as a triathlete, I got to try a friend’s penny farthing. It is a scary ride, but once you got it going, you could keep a high pace of speed fairly easily. I’m sure it must have been done, but what a hoot if a bunch of penny farthings raced on a hard board track. The slightest hill would probably blow out your knees in no time though.
     
  19. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I'd note you added youtube, I made no mention of that, so I'm not going to address that as it is an entirely different site, different goals, different in all ways. Lumping them together makes the conversation useless.

    two things to consider: 1) what would be in it for the academy to not recognize a product that is not directly serving the academy?

    Take a look at the history books that we used in say US History in 1985 (not long ago, but not today) how accurate does it tell the story 'really'?

    When you look back on what you learned in school, college and graduate school... how much better was the information in terms of reliability than what is available? I'd also note that several prestigious schools have opened up their classes for online membership at no cost to anyone who wants to take them.

    I'm not a big fan of the whole 'internet qualifications' thing 'I rode on a firetruck once so...' but, just so you can recognize I'm not an enemy of the academy and am often an apologist, I hold a bachelors, 2 masters and a doctoral degree and taught at the college level.

    I'm not against it at all... and the rigor of academia has huge value for me, but, I also see the value in democratization of information, who decides what things mean and who decides what happened. Under the stewardship of just the academics, many truths were ignored and whether through bias or malice, the story of the world was tainted by it.

    I'd also note that you introduced Wikipedia's use as a source for college research. I only referenced that Wikipedia is updated and corrected vastly more often than any other 'in print' encyclopedia.

    Look at the parts that you added to the discussion so that you could make your point. Again, I'm in favor of you making your point, but look at how you adapted the discussion to fit your need to make a point.
     
  20. Obsessed

    Obsessed Telefied Silver Supporter

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    Okay, I just had to look it up:

     
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