Taking sides and it's historical fiction.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by imwjl, Jun 10, 2021 at 8:48 AM.

  1. Bluesboy3

    Bluesboy3 Tele-Afflicted

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    I am no expert on Wikipedia. I have never added any info myself personally (not sure if I even can...). What I do know is many of the pages seem very well vetted, and others, not so much. Wikipedia is rife with people's personal opinions as well as colloquial language. Without going down the rabbit hole (Bent will say that since I'm qualifying my statement, I AM going down the rabbit hole), it strikes me that especially over the past 8-10 years, our society is so split about what the "reality" is. It's almost unfair to have an opinion sometimes because there is so much "evidence" to the contrary. This goes both ways, if not even more than both ways. This touches on the "willful ignorance" thread on this forum. I sometimes wonder if it's best just to concern oneself with one's own reality and keep chugging forward. There is always someone on the other side that has "researched" more than you/I have and uses that as evidence that they are correct.
     
  2. 41144

    41144 Friend of Leo's

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    This is the whole internet can of worms in one dose.

    Everyone's now not only a writer/graphics artist etc ... but also their own editor and publisher.

    Folk utilising the ease of online publishing to re-work a 'story' in order to promote something like a bike race ... no problem.
    I would like to think that such examples I do/would eventually rumble, have a chuckle to myself and move on.

    The problem, as we already know, is when someone applies those same techniques to produce an, at face value, plausible story that they deliberately intend to engineer (or rather mis-engineer) a historic or societal issue.
    ie twist if not invert the truth behind the reality of a situation.

    Saying that, it's not just the internet, tabloid newspapers have ever since the 1800s (if not before) been manipulating (and by that I mean falsifying!) stories to sell copy and/or their own agenda.

    Net result, whether in conventional print or the internet .... Take nothing at face value and always looks for other reference/source material.
     
  3. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    It wasn't Wikipedia at the time but around the time of 9/11 when everyone was researching who was the Taliban and Al Queda I recall whatever the first link I found during my lunch break was the exact graphics shown on the news in the evening. Lazy research knows no bounds.


    And dont mess with bike riders. They are Really Serious. I do Zwift and it's like riding your bike in a video game. People have races and treat it like real life.
     
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  4. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    Back in the 90s people had fan pages for their favorite bands, etc. When Wikipedia came along I think it replaced a lot of that. Now the 5 fans can edit the thing to death.

    Wiki is a good starting point but additional work is needed for serious matters.
     
  5. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    Harry Styron posted this earlier https://www.nature.com/articles/533452a

    it is a really interesting article.

    On wiki, you can 100% post on articles. If there is something you think you know, you can share it there. edit it etc.

    For fun, make an account and go pick an entry with, like your favorite record or book. Edit it and change one of the band members to one of your friends or put some goof in there and see how long it lasts.

    If you pick something obscure, it may stay for a bit because, well, no one is looking. But, if you put yourself as the lead guitar player on Dark Side of the Moon, it is often SECONDS before it is corrected.

    I remain interested in other people's thoughts and beliefs NOT to change their mind, but to see if I should adjust what I think I believe. So, if a member says the Eagles are dead, I may discuss it with them, but I'm listening, they may bring a different take on something that I'd not considered and that could change my mind.

    On this forum, I have changed my mind several times about pretty big things based on new or different information OR how that information was constructed.

    It is also helpful for me to know what the other voices have to say and to try to figure out what drives it.

    It is never a bad thing to look inward and tend the garden, but it is also a great, big world of ideas and beliefs etc most of which are of zero threat to our internal thoughts and beliefs, but a way to expand and clarify our own in contrast.

    I'm old so I have seen the world split like this a few times. It is the growing and shedding, contracting and casting off of a huge range of things.
     
  6. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Please add to signature. Thanx.
     
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  7. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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  8. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    What is awesome is being in a meeting and you have a rack of Pelligino waters, smart waters, maybe good old Dasani, coke, sprite... and watching who takes what.

    When smartwater first came out, people would ask about it and they'd read the label and... be totally convinced that it would unleash their trapped smartness.

    Seriously, at the end of the meeting, the smartwater would be GONE..
     
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  9. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    I keep this handy....

    9509398A-C332-457B-9D16-80B7807479FA.png
     
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  10. Bluesboy3

    Bluesboy3 Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree and I am very open to changing my mind about things. And I HAVE learned a lot about human nature and have improved my own tolerance (especially this is what I have learned) from being on TDPRI.

    PS. I WAS the lead guitar player on DSOTM, but I settled with David Gilmour years ago, so I allow him to claim that bill.
     
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  11. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Erie Canal competition? The Canal did pretty darn good right into the 20th Century. Railroad must have had better luck elsewhere. :D

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Canal#Competition

    Other competition was more direct. The Mohawk and Hudson Railroad opened in 1837, providing a bypass to the slowest part of the canal between Albany and Schenectady. Other railroads were soon chartered and built to continue the line west to Buffalo, and in 1842 a continuous line (which later became the New York Central Railroad and its Auburn Road in 1853) was open the whole way to Buffalo. As the railroad served the same general route as the canal, but provided for faster travel, passengers soon switched to it. However, as late as 1852, the canal carried thirteen times more freight tonnage than all the railroads in New York State combined; it continued to compete well with the railroads through 1902, when tolls were abolished.
     
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  12. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Off topic a bit. But until very recently what used to the nation's most inland major port is just a few miles from me between the confluences of the Kanawha and Big Sandy rivers with the Ohio. Coast Guard have a small unit just a few miles east. I was kinda amazed to find that out when I moved here. We're at least 6 hours from the closest ocean LOL. Apparently the reduction in coal traffic in the last decade dropped us down a few notches. Oh well. In any case, I was also kinda amazed to find the top honors change hands every few years. Who knew?
     
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  13. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    I guess I thought in 2021 it would be unnecessary to point out the fact that requiring both citations of primary sources and allowing for public editing is actually good thing. If not the very definition of democratization of fact finding and referencing. Guess I was wrong.

    The reason using Wikipedia as a primary source is inappropriate is that it serves merely as an aggregate of information, subject at any time for debate and editing. The "pedia" should be at least part of the giveaway. But since Wikipedia expects readers and editors to cite primary sources, it serves a wonderful purpose as as a working, if not potentially interactive (it's the internet, y'know) bibliography. Those are GOOD things. Far better than what we relied on in the past for publicizing information.

    Here's an example: I found this sentence in one of the pages I linked to. The subtopic seems a little precarious, anyway. But this sentence didn't have any citing. Or at least it wasn't clear to how it related to sources cited before or after. I could go edit and put in a tag noting citing needed. Neat, huh?

    The federal government provided no cash to any other railroads. However it did provide unoccupied free land to some of the Western railroads, so they could sell it to farmers and have customers along the route.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo..._States#Basis_of_the_private_financial_system
     
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  14. Harry Styron

    Harry Styron Friend of Leo's Gold Supporter

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    I'll extend the drift of this post.

    I studied economic geography in grad school and took historical geography and history courses about the development of western North America. One of my geography professors wrote his dissertation on the competition between the ports at Houston and Galveston for cotton from the high plans.

    This stuff is still fascinating to me. In my early legal career, a client of my employer law firm was Tulsa's Port of Catoosa Authority, which operated a barge port and turning basin at the head of navigation on the Arkansas River, which had been created in 1972 with the completion of of the McClellan-Kerr Navigation project, which enabled year-round barge traffic up to Tulsa. The products shipped downstream were primarily grains and industrial heat exchangers and large equipment for offshore oil rigs, which were manufactured in the area. Upstream came other items too large for highway transport.


    Near where I live on in Branson overlooking a part of the White River (a major tributary of the lower Arkansas River) known as Lake Taneycomo, small steamboats could occasionally ascend, prior to the construction of the dam that created Lake Taneycomo in 1913.

    For a time, one of the major industries along the White River (and many other streams) was harvesting freshwater mussels for the button industry. There were once huge shoals of mussels that had accumulated, and their buttons could be drilled out of them with hole saws. Freshwater pearls were sometimes found.
     
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  15. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    [​IMG]
     
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  16. buster poser

    buster poser Friend of Leo's Platinum Supporter

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    Authentic frontier gibberish!
     
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  17. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Poster Extraordinaire

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    Just nuts. On so many levels.

    You ever had a health related discussion with someone, and "I hate the taste of water." comes out of their mouth? Yeah, just nowhere to go from there.
     
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  18. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Tele Axpert Ad Free Member

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    My wife has an aunt who, oh, fifty years ago, while pregnant, drank a glass of water and then felt nauseous -- imagine, a nauseous pregnant woman?! She hasn't drunk water since. Just pop and tea. You ask her and she'll say, "I can't drink water!" Amazing :rolleyes:
     
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  19. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    Penny farthings weren't a thing in the 1920s. People weren't normally riding them.

    O.k., I'm pretty sure I've seen clowns riding them at the circus in the 1970s, but not on the streets.
     
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  20. imwjl

    imwjl Poster Extraordinaire

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    I'll save that with my logical fallacy crib sheet.
     
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