Take "It doesn't sound identical" out of the equation....

Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by codamedia, Nov 22, 2021.

  1. Ignatius

    Ignatius Friend of Leo's

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    I have a feeling that the loudest voices who argue for or against tubes or modeling in online forums probably spend more time posting in online forums than they do performing music, improving their musicianship, and playing with other people. Maybe I'm wrong.
     
  2. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

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    Do you think this was a "modeling vs tube" thread? FYI, it's not!
    I think you might have missed the point of my post. It easily applies to re-issue vs original, clone vs re-issue, pedal vs pedal, strat vs strat, tele vs tele, etc... etc...
     
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  3. getbent

    getbent Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I will mute, I was jokin!
     
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  4. fender4life

    fender4life Friend of Leo's

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    The thing u r missing here is you are looking at it from one man's POV.....yours. A lot of people DO want that. Personally, i'm with you. My goal is tone that simply works for me and gives me the degree of dynamics/touch i want and a tone that does all the necessary things like clean up well with the guitar volume and sound great that way while smoothing out and getting sustaining when i roll the volume all the way up. I could care less if it sounds like a marshall or fender le alone a specific model of either. Good tone is good tone in my book ad thats all that matters to me. Besides, no matter the amp model u r playing or modeling, by the time you put your touch on it and set it the way you like and use your guitars and pickup, all those things will net you the same sound on most any amp. Thats why people always talk about how so and so played up VH's rig or claptons rig but it sounded nothing like them in thier hands.

    But again, you are not like everyone else. A lot of people DO want them to sound and feel so close it's hard to tell. And as far as variance from one tube amp model to another of the same model, i think thats more subtle than what people are wanting. They just want it to sound and feel like if u lined up 5 of the tube amp model in question and one of them was the modeler, they couldn't tell which one was the imposter. But many just don't sound or feel like they are close enough to be in that 5 amp line up. Thats what they want. But again, you aren't them and they aren't you. And like i also said, i feel the same as you maybe even more because as i said i don't care what it sounds similar too as long as the desirable details like touch and fullness etc are all there. Also note not everyone hears the same. I keep hearing how good the tonemaster is in sounding like a real DR but i finally played one and was not real impressed either with how close it got to a real DR or how good it was to my personal desires which as i said is simply great tone and touch. I didn't feel it was all that close as what i keep reading from others.

    Any ways, i think u just aren't considering that what you want not only isn't what everyone else does, but possibly you are even in the minority, maybe the vast minority. I feel the same but i realize that at least from what it seems reading at forums on modeling that most DO want what you and i don't care about. I have a modeler with about 30 models in it yet i generally find the one that does all the desirable things i need and just use that one most of the time. I don't care what it is suppose to be or even care if they tell me ! I pick the model i wanna use with my ears not my eyes.
     
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  5. Blrfl

    Blrfl Tele-Afflicted

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    I'd have to given that the only digital camera in existence the first time I released a shutter was Steve Sasson's 1975 Kodak prototype. But yes, I've shot, processed and printed lots of different films and papers in black-and-white and color. I've also got 21 years of digital under my belt and have been through it not being ready for prime time and its evolution into something useful. I miss exactly one thing about chemical photography, but not enough to justify building a new darkroom.

    Ah, yes, depth and magic, each an unquantifiable, indescribable je ne sais quoi that makes one's chosen medium superior to all others and instantly wins all debates.

    Personally, I don't care about either. I do care about making things people like to look at and have managed to do that with both. The way I got there was putting in the work to identify each medium's strengths and weaknesses and finding ways to exploit or work around them. My cabinets and hard drives have plenty of examples of things I got wrong along the way. The stuff I got right is hanging on my walls.

    The image is the finished product. Without that, we could ditch cameras, lenses and everything that goes with them and skip to theoretical photography, where digital and analog don't exist and don't matter.

    Of course they are. I never said otherwise.

    Tri-X Pan, HP5 and whatever Agfa was making 35 years ago were different beasts, too. Had Internet forums existed then, I'm sure those differences would have been beaten into a greasy spot where the dead horse used to be.
     
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  6. Maguchi

    Maguchi Tele-Afflicted

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    Das koo, can be any a those. I'll still take the best sounding stuff and if you want the sounds good enough in the mix and loud band setting that's fine too. What I've experienced many times when playing guitar, either at home or with a band, is that just a little bit of a better sound can inspire me to play longer and create new riffs, solos and tunes. Could be amps, guitars, modeling, tube whatever.
     
  7. boxocrap

    boxocrap Tele-Meister

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    i agree
     
  8. Maguchi

    Maguchi Tele-Afflicted

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    Well at least the initial part of the post was about the importance or lack of importance of a modeling amp sounding like a tube amp. And this is the "Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps" thread.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  9. codamedia

    codamedia Poster Extraordinaire

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    Touché ....
    My initial intent was not to make this a debate between the platforms but yes, I guess I left a loop hole :D

    I apologize for my earlier response...
     
  10. BrettFuzz

    BrettFuzz TDPRI Member

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    In my opinion the biggest fallacy when it comes to test driving amps is the need to do the comparison from the get go, regardless if it's modelling to modelling, modelling to tube, tube to tube, etc. From what I've read and seen most people immediately try to compare the new amp with the amp(s) they have or have played before. Then they twist the knobs to make the new amp sound as close to their old amp as possible. What's the freaking point of trying a new amp then? My rule is this - if I get a new amp I am playing that amp and only that amp for at least a week and I am not allowed to plug into any other amp during that time. So, during that time I am forced to get the best sound out of the new amp that I can get. Once I am comfortable with the new amp I can plug in some of my old amps and run a comparison. I feel that's the only way to give the new amp a fair chance.
     
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  11. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    Aww....c'mon. There's no magic in following identical specs.

    #psychoacoustics
     
  12. Dennyf

    Dennyf Tele-Afflicted

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    I was thinking more of "vintage" (i.e. old tube) amps, when manufacturing tolerances of all components was not quite so tight, and "parts bin" substitutions were sometimes made, and with a history of maintenance and repairs, but even so . . . people cherry-pick tubes because they think one sounds different than another. The specs might be identical, but once one meets a minimum threshold, manufacturing tolerances play a role.

    I was shopping for a (real) blackface Deluxe Reverb a few decades ago. Definitely no two sounded alike, and none of the sampling I had available to me were "magical." (I never did get one.)

    Much more recently I went with a buddy who was shopping for a new Blues Jr. He played five different ones at Sam Ash in Nashville, four of them with different speakers from the factory. One sounded distinctly better to both of us, and that's the one he bought. So Fender wasn't making them to all "sound the same." They were limited-edition models, and the type of speaker was the "feature," but nothing on the amp said anything but "Fender" and "Blues Jr."

    I guess my point is that you're often not getting "identical specs" even within the same year and model. And sometimes the stars align . . .

    When you get into the solid-state realm, I'm more inclined to agree with you.
     
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  13. northernguitar

    northernguitar Friend of Leo's

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    A mass produced Blues Jr. will sound the same.
     
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