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Discussion in 'Modeling Amps, Plugins and Apps' started by codamedia, Nov 22, 2021.
Tone master thread again?
But does the boutique builder have one of those?
Just want to "chime" in (haha) to say that I have a couple Vox modelers, and they NAIL Fender blackface cleans just as good as Fender's own modelers. (IMO)
Somewhat of a parallel with automakers who decided you didn't need a gauge, just an idiot light to tell you when things were in the danger level askew.
I see pedal demos where they obsess over the Klon Klone gain needing 17 deg more rotation to match an original Klon sound. Or some minor difference in mid range harmonic that's detectable only when A/B'ing back-to-back four times.
Does it sound good? You're done.
I am always amazed at how many spend countless hours (and money) trying to get ‘so and so’s’ sound instead of just finding a good sound that is their own sound. I doubt very much that those player’s sounds they are chasing got them by trying to find another player’s sound.
Their sound is unique and what sets them apart for every other player. Would be very boring if they all sounded alike.
As Bob Dylan once told me, “Do your own thing. You’ll never be anyone by trying to be someone else”. Pretty good advice and not just as relates to music. Get your own sound and play songs in your own style and arrangement.
That has always been my gripe about digital gear…once it dies, it’s done.
I have repaired (or have had repaired) tube and solid-state gear (amps, pedals, etc.) that was more than fifty years old.
When my digital gear needs repair, it’ll either not have parts available or it will be too costly to repair—if anybody can even figure out what’s wrong with it!
^This, times 1000.
There are players whose tone I love (Sue Foley, Billy Gibbons, Jimmie Vaughan, Bonnie Raitt’s slide playing, SRV, Muddy, Keef), and whom I use as tonal “touch points/benchmarks”…
I’ve found over the years that just playing one of their riffs or licks, with a nod towards their original sound, gets just as much attention as the guy who has spent 10,000 hours and $10,000 trying to nail someone’s style, but still plays it slightly imperfectly…
But what gets even more attention is playing one of their riffs with my own bend and my own style—it’s familiar but new, instead of “Yeah, I heard that 30/40/50 years ago…”
I played a gig with a bunch of experienced guys who’d been playing country and western all their lives. I brought my blues- and Outlaw Country-based sensibilities to their “classic” country and western show and everyone said, “Hey, that new guy’s great!”
I wasn’t—the main guitarist and pedal steel player could (and did) play circles around me all night long (they were truly better than me at everything except when I played harmonica)…but putting a new bend on an old classic made the song sound fresh and exciting to the audience.
The steel player hated me because I didn’t try (or care) to perfectly emulate what George Jones was doing in 1963 or what George Strait was doing in 1993—I was just playing the songs as best I could…he did not want to invite me back, and since he was the de facto leader of the group, I didn’t not join and just jam with the other guys here and there when the chance arises.
One other example:
Waylon Jennings recorded and performed a lot of cover songs over the years—and while he’d sometimes play to the spirit of the original, he’d often just go totally off the rails and do the song as if he wrote it…and whether you liked the original or his cover better, it didn’t matter—he was playing to his strengths and sounding good-to-great, instead of imitating and/or emulating someone else and possibly failing.
I used a paint pen to write a note on my microphone base:
Meaning, “Use your own natural voice—what would Waylon do?”
Since I started doing that (not just on vocals, but also guitar, harp and slide guitar), it’s served me well.
Thank you... that is what this thread is about.
This is NOT what this thread it about.
Well, I started this thread, I don't own a ToneMaster, and I have no intention of buying a ToneMaster....
so I conclude NO, it is not a "tone master thread again"
FWIW I own three tube amps, 2 solid state amps and 2 modelers. I have zero agenda and I don't get hung up on what technology is used to get good tone.
The bottom line is that some people decided in advance that they will never accept the new technology (for whatever reason), and the result is that the majority of the objections we see posted over and over are nothing more than every excuse imaginable that will prop up the old stuff while beating down the new.
The first objection was that digital didn't sound like tube amps. The technology and programming caught up with that, so the next objection was that it didn't "feel" like tube amps. Again, technology caught up and then we had the "A modeler through my 6" monitors doesn't sound like a roaring Plexi through a 4x12" gripe. And through this all was the underlying "You spend more time tweaking than you do playing" comment, which is actually more about the user than the gear. Mesa/Boogie used to have the sole claim to that objection until modelers hit big, and then the pressure was off, because Boogies still have tubes in them.
@Fiesta Red, back when I was in high school and playing in bands in the early 60’s there was one local band which probably had the best players and singers of any of the local groups (and there were many). All the bands played primarily covers except that band which did only covers. They were very good at it and tried to sound just like the original. They did that really well, up to a point.
You have probably bought CDs with compilations of hits only to find that they weren’t quite the versions you expected to hear, different takes, etc. not the hit singles. That was what that band sounded like. Very close, but no cigar. Due to that they really weren’t very popular with the teens. Heard people say many times, they’re pretty good but something seems off. We’d be better off just listening to the record.
All the other bands (mine included) would do covers if popular songs but in their own style and arrangement and were very popular with everyone. Never heard the comments that were heard about that other band.
Exactly. Almost every song Joan Jett does is a cover. Almost every one is done with a twist or take on the original. Just done Joan style - often with changes to lyrics or music. And almost every one is better than the original or at least a tie.
Playing electric guitar is like playing TWO instruments, the guitar AND the amp. They are both instruments and you can occasionally find a sweet spot for both - if you are lucky.
It's funny what I can get used to. I'll be messing around with a certain tone on my modelling amp for a while, play it a good 20-30min straight, thinking it sounds great. Then I'll switch to a completely different sound, thinking it sounds kinda different and "off", but sure enough 20-30min later I'm completely used to it and having a good time. Then go back to the original tone and now IT sounds different and somewhat "off" lol.
It makes me glad that I finally gave up the tone quest this past year. I've got a Yamaha THR10 with more modeling options than I'll ever use, and then a SS Peavey Envoy for those times when I'm alone and want to crank it loud. 1 SC guitar, 1 HB guitar, 1 acoustic. If I can't have a good time and make some music with that stuff then I probably need to find a different instrument.
I played around with an old Vox Tonelab LE for a while (I still have it, in fact). I would spend time dialing in a good sound, save it and then change the amp model to dial in a different tone. I came to realize that when I was done dialing, they both sounded very similar. There was a sound in my head.
I eventually found a few ways to get that sound or subtle variations of it. I have no idea what amp produces that sound….. If I had to guess, I might say it’s a Hiwatt, or maybe a Fender with a mids control.
After reading these forums for many years I can confidently say this is hardly exclusive to modelers.
The only people in the audience that give a rip about modeling sounds are other guitarists. If thay are such expert, why aren't they out playing their own gig?
OMG that is me! Whatever sound I start on is the one that sounds "best". It does take a while to adjust, then the new one is the reference. I do tend to fall back to a certain sound set after a while, and that is what I go for when questing for tone. My quests never last long, fortunately, so money is not spent.
I use a modeling pedal. It has four banks per stored digit, so I tend to have four sounds for any particular guitar. I pick an amp and cabinet model that sounds good with that guitar, dial in the EQ, and a hint of reverb.The first one is clean and each additional one just gets a little bit grittier. I stick with one of the first two 95% of the time.
If I switch things up it's either the clean tone or the one stage dirty tone for that guitar. The only reason I have other settings stored is for particular songs that need it.
I have beginning thinking along these lines. Not for other but for myself. I have admitted to that I have never played a 68 marshall 50 watt, or a 100 watt Hi=Watt so how would I know if my gear was sounding authentic like those instruments.
I recently Purchased two Epiphone guitars. The Les Paul Modern sounds great, as does the Les Paul Jr. BUT! Do they sound like vintage instruments? Who would I know, And why does it matter? The same holds true For the 3 amp models offered by the Iridium pedal.
This gear is evaluated on it's own merits not not on the merits of something other than whats in my hands now.
These instrument are tools to perform a function in my studio.They are intended for me to make noise with and not intended to be Museum pieces embodying the qualities of priceless vintage instruments.
If the sound is garage funky, fine, so be it.
In fairness, there are a lot of old old farts here who started out in the pure analog era and lived through the very early digital stuff. Ooooh... Some of that was bad and I think it ruined some folks for life.
I recently dug out my old Roland GS6 (1989-ish??) and re-racked it for fun just to play around with. You can just hear "the digital" coming out of it. I swear I can actual see 1s and 0s when I play it. (you can start the video ~9 minute mark to rear him play it and see what I mean.)
That said, I love my "modern" modeling gear, I have Vox VT 50 (hybrid tube), Spark and J-Station. I also use Bias 2 and Guitar Rig 6 for recording. New digital is so much better than old digital. That said, I also like to put on a good clean tone and use pedals to come up with stuff, too. I haven't a care in least if the sound sounds like what the manufacturer intended it to mimic.